58367 The $75 Junkyard Carrera coupe restoration

[JTR70]

Thanks again all of you guys!! Today was a very long day starting at 8AM with mixed results ending at about 7PM. We got everything in silver base but not without several issues along the way which required some curing time then a light scuff in thousand grit then a follow up coat of base. By the time we got it all recovered we were wiped out, sick from solvent fumes and very hungry so we are shooting the clear on first thing Sunday Morning. At least the weather is supposed to be a repeat of Sat. Here's a few shots from today. Thanks again for all the great words of supports you guys!! Justin

A few shots just before it went into the booth.







Into the booth and ready to begin hanging all the closing panels and situating to Ricks liking. There's Skip a buddy of Ricks looking things over and enjoying his "breakfastbeer"

He was big help today and was glad he was there.

Doors were hung as they mount so the metal flake would react to gravity just as they would if mounted to the car for consistency with the fenders. We sprayed the initial coat on the deck and hood in their natural state as well for a similar effect. After a good base was established we hung them so Rick could shoot the backs sides as well.

Rick suited up and ready to lay down the first coat.

Everything now in initial base. Lids as you can see hung up by this point.

Just as Bruce described, everyone drinking beer between coats. Skip's there picking out all the specks of lint and missed areas to Rick.















We had our troubles today but Rick did a great jog laying down that flake.

By the time I took these however I was too tired and beat up to appreciate it fully. It will look even better to me after a good nights sleep I have no doubt. Going to sign-off here so I can be ready for part two tomorrow. My thanks again to you guys for all the great posts of support! Justin

[Impi]

Wow, did you notice that all good painters sort of get in a trance like state when painting.... I thought it was the fumes at first but I have realised now it is a zen like state where they allow themselves to go slow and steady. I am always in too much of a hurry. I love this part

[merbesfield]

Looks really nice. Sort of reminds me of the raw aluminum used on the Gumund cars. Can't wait to see the clear pics. Thx for posting.

[John Pierce]

Really nice, Justin. Thanks for documenting the process for us who've not seen this before.


JP

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Looking super!!! 12.15 pm over here guess you will be soon ready to start on the finish.

Great photo's and good thoughts about the hanging of the doors with gravity involved.

Thinking of you today. You car looks just like new ( or better than new )amazing.

Roy

[Jonesy_356]

Awsome, what a great color! You're doing a great job at being methodical and patient mate, not long now. Hope the weather holds up, looks like it might,

thanks for sharing,

Jonesy

[bbspdstr]

Geez, I take a day off for my wife's birthday and open abcgt this Monday AM to see how things are going on the A Coup-aaaaaa.....and:

Uh-oh......as Yogi was fond of saying: "Deja vu all over again." I hope there is a happy ending and I am just missing an important ingredient or step BUT....here's one of my (yeah, I know)endless stories:

Many years ago I subbed a silver job on a Speedster to another guy not far away who had just put in a new downdraft and had done a lot of very good work for many restorers including me prior to that....including his own street rod 'creations' that had taken many awards. Was and still is a good painter. Should have been a easy situation, right?

NOT! Upon assembly, the freekin' Speedster looked like a police car. Different 'look' to each panel vs. the main body shell.
Sun or shade, the panels didn't match. I lost money and thus could not get this guy to make it right. Sanded it down like the blue 356 above and sprayed it again myself in a primitive area with good results.

I told him to paint the car together and asked why he didn't....and he shot back: "I DID and have pictures to prove it!!!!" So, there in his pictures, he proved they were all hung in the big new booth all at the same time, around the shell and yes, he did go in the booth and spray them "at the same time"...but like shown in this thread.

The only way to get all the metallic to conform and look consistent is to assemble the shell with doors and lids and spray them together. Bumpers, hinge covers and the dash are immune, sorta, but sunroof panels are not.

It doesn't matter that the same person, on the same day with the same gun at the same pressure with the same mix of paint shoots the panels hanging in the same booth at the same time, (even theoretically accommodating gravity).....the panel-to-panel "look" is interrupted, especially on silver...sorry, but this is from the expensive tuition I've paid at the School of Hard Knocks. That's one of those schools that ANYONE can attend if you have the time and money....... unless advised otherwise.

I will apologize in advance if this "overall" is to be done after the painting as pictured. That the silver on external surfaces is to be a base and sanded after assembly, inner surfaces masked for a "soft" edge, and the whole external surface resprayed and cleared.....

Still, I am not holding back and yet hopefully "jumping the gun" with unwarranted and unnecessary info, but Justin, I want your labor of love to be unspoiled!!!!

Bruce

[Jack Staggs]

Bruce, I'm glad you were the first to say it. Twice, IIRC. I completely agree.

[roy mawbey]

As a DIY home guy never sprayed a metallic. I really hope it works out for Justin. Trouble is its Monday not Sunday.

When you have been through that, you have to speak up as Bruce and Jack have done. I was worrying about paint thickness on those super gaps even though Justin was fully aware on that.

I really, really hope all goes well this final finish. Paint work is just not easy. If it does look different from body to doors and lids etc, can you assemble when dry and just spray a final coat all over or is that not the right way and it needs rubbing down all over?

Crossing my fingers

Roy

[JTR70]

As Roy guessed by this late response things went sideways terribly on Sunday. No surprise (at least to me) as its all par for the course in paint and bodywork. Like Bruce and Jack I too am of the school of thought that you must paint all the panels in place to get a consistent hue and flake pattern across the joints so Bruce's suggestions did not go unnoticed. I watched my father struggle with metallic matches all through the 80's so its well engrained. The reason I was open to doing it here is that Rick is a professional painter by trade and runs a paint shop in Las Vegas. As manager of a commercial shop he is required to be up to date on all the latest system of paint, compliance etc. I told him of my matching concerns and he was absolutely adamant that it was not going to be a problem to paint separately as these newer systems are nothing like it was 20 years ago. He also noted his Wiz-bang 800.00 dollar SATA gun specifically for metallics which would further ensure a consistent job. I know basic paint only (old school stuff) so I wasn't in an up to date position to disagree with him. It would be like me disagreeing with Bruce on how to set up a 356 for SCCA or Jack on how best to do a valve job. You guys like Rick are all experts in your respective fields so you go with it. The other enticing feature was I didn't want the further risk and/or work of backing taping the jambs. Notably on a coupe there is just no good spot to break the paint line across the B-pillar into the gutter and down into the jambs; its just flows continuously. So painting with the doors off was the cleanest and easiest option. What I may just do on the next try is have him shoot another base coat on with the doors on then break the car back down for a final fog-coat. I think it will be good insurance as I can't take another fuck-up I'm just about ready to build a rat-rod out of this thing. I'll post Sunday's adventure here shortly.
My thanks again to ALL you guys for the great advice and words of encouragement.
Justin

[merbesfield]

Sorry I went sideways. Yes, rat rods are much more forgiving. I remember seeing old pics of Porsches with the doors held in place in the opening, but with some sort of jig that held the door vs. the door hinge. Maybe something like this would help you?

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Your post explains everything very well. Its hard to disagree with an expert who is totally sure of himself and his products.

I wonder if Bruce's and Jacks comments if received earlier would have made any difference anyway.

For him though if the mis-match is exactly that, it must also be hard on him from a personal point of view.

You certainly have been through so much with the car. I remember so well the cowling ( or scuttle as we call it ) and finding it so hard to believe the supplied panel could be so wrong when it obviously was, and also from another expert.

Your metal basis is as good as you will ever get, you have done it before, step back switch off and resume when you are ready.

This experience proves yet again your forum is the best for anyone starting out on 356 resto's to read. I am sure you will get it right.

Roy

[bbspdstr]

Justin,
Sorry..is all I can say....but welcome to MY world. Worlds like mine are meant to be visited, not a place in which to dwell. They are scary places with magic and foreign chemistries that blow your mind....

It's all psycho-logical:

A metallic coating is as I originally said: two paint jobs. It's just more work, more time, more of a pain(t) in the ass. Commercially, it's more expensive...unless it's just an exterior overall...and maybe with a single stage silver metallic. They exist, but are not as durable...and I know that from trying a single stage on 356 wheels. The 'color' was good, but the product was not as strong, so it didn't stand up as long as a good poly (not acrylic) urethane.

I redid a lot of 25th anniversary (silver) 911s. The base/clear chemistry was new and the clear began just blowing off when a few years old, but Porsche did most of the re-paints under warranty. The chemistry was better by then, so it was good filler work for shops like mine, but still more a pain(t) in the arse than would have been a solid color.

Justin, the work you have done so far requires doing the paint all the way right. Organize a 'sanding party' as I described earlier and just knock down the exterior with 400 a square foot at a time, to see base OR, not and/or primer or you could get swelling at a sand-through. Just be sure the fresh clear is gone. Wait a minimum of 3 days.(I wish we were closer...I'd help.)

I like 500 under base so overlap a final wet-sanding with that prior to, yep, starting over (as that which was so frustrating and financially wasteful to me with the Aquamarine metallic A I showed earlier on).

There is a foam masking product for the gaps once the paper is close enough to an edge. It's fairly quick and gives a soft edge that is easily compounded into an unintelligible blend at the openings. Don't worry about the B pillars above the door tops when closed, mask those at the step-out of the quarter and mask the whole rear side window opening and the whole B pillar.

I was taught to fold the tape over on one edge and let it make a short tunnel for a soft edge. Also, most product lines offer a "burn-in" solvent that can make any blend disappear if needed in a tough spot.

Sorry to have to say that NO product, no special gun, no special conditions can make an overall metallic coating (OK, urethanes are not really "paint" per se, just plastic coatings) match panel-to-panel unless they are sprayed continuously. The flakes are reflective and thus need to 'look' continuous..because they ARE continuously sprayed, it's as simple as that.

An in/out collision shop painter knows to blend any base into any adjacent panel if there is any pride in their work....then once the color and "look" is right, it gets buried under the clear up to the next panel and so on. (Even that used to be difficult with different clears having a different influence over the base and next blended-to panel's clear.)

Ironically, as I finish typing this, the satellite shop radio is playing Lou Reed/Velvet Underground's "Walk on the wild side".............how appropriate!

-Bruce

[Trevor]

http://youtu.be/0KaWSOlASWc

Don't worry Justin, minor set back. Be thankful you're out of the de-rusting stage

[JTR70]

I don't envy you Trevor, Good luck with your repair.

That's an interesting idea Mark, maybe some sort of a contraption like that for the next one.

Thanks again Roy!

I appreciate all the great Advice Bruce! It would be nice if you were right down the street. As I worked on it tonight I made a definite plan to shoot the car this last go around all assembled. While Rick is still confident that it won't be a problem to shoot the panels separately I simply can't take the risk and there is no need to anyway. It hit me that I've been giving the jambs top billing over the skin up until now. I've got a good base of color on all the jambs and will simply go back and blend in any dry or missed spots after the fact. These very uncritical areas I can certainly handle myself and at my leisure. Thanks again you guys! Justin