58367 The $75 Junkyard Carrera coupe restoration

[roy mawbey]

Looking great Justin. Just a quick question, you mention above you are not respraying the underside of the back lid? What do mean by that? I fully understand how you need to control the paint thickness on the body gaps, not easy to do that. The paint cost wow, that did surprise me, but sensible to get the best paint avaliable.

I guess you have to be so careful when floating a few coats of primer to build up the surface that surface has to be so clean. I regret so much the attention to detail on preparing for final coat on my car, I would love to know why micro blistering is occuring in areas and spreading every year that passes. Its not rust must be my prep work or much cheaper cellulose paint I used 25 years ago.

That silver will look stunning I reckon.

Roy

[JTR70]

Thanks very much Don! I hope it looks "one piece" once its finally painted.
Appreciate it Gordon! Man, you left me right in the dust; almost embarrassing.

Hey Roy, what I meant was that the underside paint is too nice to justify sanding and repainting just to regain the undisturbed Painted bolt detail. The outer body skin of course has an M&M like candy coated shell of filler and paint so the reflections can be nice but everywhere else I am trying to keep the paint to a bare minimum and reshooting the underside would only make it thicker. As for the micro blistering you're experiencing, I was made aware of an interesting culprit called 'out gassing' by my painter friend Rick. It occurs when the temp is too hot for the reducers and the outer surface of the paint coat flashes trapping remaining solvents underneath. As time passes the solvents eventually form small blisters as they try to escape. Your finish may be too old for this to be the problem but was a new concept at least for me. Thanks again for putting the good word out Roy, I am very grateful to you for doing so!

[Impi]

Hi Justin what you have said about the gassing process is true but also that as this gassing occurs it causes shrinkage in the fillers and primers this shrinkage causes all kinds of waves and sanding scratches to re appear. the only way to ensure that this doesn't happen is to take your time (much as you have been doing on your project. you also have to ensure that the water used for sanding at the final stages has all evaporated from the substrate (I could imagine trapped water turning to steam and causing bubbles under the paint if heated in the sun but that is merely conjecture on my part, aside from the obvious rust problem) I have also found that in basecoat clear coat paints the quality of the clearcoat to be the determining factor in how well the paint will last. I had a car painted in standox 20 years ago and the bodyshop didn't use a compatible clearcoat after a few years the clearcoat lifted off almost completely leaving a seemingly good base. to be honest I haven't found that german paints are more resistant to our African sun than others. despite the hype around them.
Regards
Armand

[merbesfield]

About the blistering; did you by chance use any anti-rust treatment while prepping the car for paint? Such as Picklex or a similar Osophoric acid product. I have been told by one of my paint suppliers that if this anti flash rust product is not completely removed before appling paint products if will cause blistering once heated in the sun. I have used the stuff quite a bit to prevent rusting during my "lifetime" restoration projects LOL, but I will be sure to wash it off when I get to the paint stage.

[bbspdstr]

To quote again the old Saturday Night Live skit about "It's a floor wax"..."No, it's a dessert topping" and the third person jumps in and says "Wait...you're BOTH right!" ...which in this case is all of you.

Small time-delay blisters can come from trapped solvents when subsequent coats are sprayed without enough time in-between, metal contamination (micro corrosion), incompatible chemistry caught in pores (which is why the blisters appear frequently over leaded areas, especially old factory lead that's been blasted or the surface otherwise disturbed) OR, my most frequently experienced or heard of problem over the last 4+ decades is infrequent, unexpected minor water condensation in the air hose mixing in with any paint being sprayed and being trapped in random layers.

Thus, the best separator/dryer after the compressor and a final filter at the gun as a good defense against that last problem.

I've had guys not mix filler thoroughly and have had bleed-through out into the topcoat from colored peroxides, I've had lead contaminants not thoroughly purged come out MUCH later, 'tunneling' of deep scratches that were buried under primer and then shrank as the topcoat 'aired out'(gassed-out/cured before 'drying' over time. Hell, I'll take a fly doing the backstroke anytime over 'fisheyes' or scratch-sinking that can't be sanded out.

If doing a base-clear in a non-production environment, the best thing is to wait the max time allowed by the brand's instructions (usually at least 12 hours) and then carefully tacking off the surface and spraying the clear when the quick-drying base has the max amount of time to let it's solvents out.

-Bruce

[roy mawbey]

Ah Guys,

Some very useful info from all of you on micro blisters. Bruce's comments about water or condensation in the lines makes sense in some respects also the comments about leading. The first full respray I did on the car occured in 1977. I had welded and leaded some known areas on the car and used an old home made spray set up with beer barrel receiver etc etc, and although the paint was removed to metal in many places,factory paint still on the roof, was just rubbed down.

The leaded area's were flattened and wet and dried and I did use special ' tack cloths' to clean and remove dust before spraying. The cellulose was colour mixed for me using my still factory painted plastic cover that clips into the 3 inch diameter hole in the door frame.

Guys, I had no real experience but thought I did, the Meissen blue paint has green in it, the matched paint never ever compared to my still original interior dash. Even today, I have seen 4 separate paint swatches from well known companies and none are exactly like my dash except for paint I ordered in 1989 which was and still is,exact!

Wind on from 1977 to 1989 the paint had not micro blistered in 12 years but the colour and finish annoyed me enough,for me to use a 'hire shop' 7 cubic feet per min spraying set up in my garage.
Goodness only knows what paint had gone through that system before I started or how it had been serviced filter wise etc.

Still oblivious to my errors in 1977 I duly rubbed down all the paint again never removing the still original windscreen and rear window glass. The leaded areas still looked perfect and only some very light filler was applied where needed. The primed car looked perfect well it did to my eyes, so the surface was cleaned again carefully and the top coat applied.

From memory about 4 years later the passenger door panel was the first to micro blister, the door has perfect metal no rust.Since then
other areas have started its like a 'rash'.I guess the only way now to ever correct that is to take it right back to metal all over. The area's I leaded still seem okay but the areas I applied really thin filler wipes I can see some shrinkage which shows up a line around the area. All this in 25 years. I have bought and sold a few cars in that time so should I really expect it still to look perfect? From 3 feet away its not bad these rash bubbles are really small in diameter.

Thinking back to the 60's when I bought the car how things have changed from just keeping the car looking okay by I guess various bodges to the full on restorations of today. I think car values have dictated this attention to detail, back then it didn't seem to matter quite so much.

Always interesting comments on here about problems. Thanks

Roy

[JTR70]

I agree with you Armand, I'm not overly impressed with any exceptional durability with the Euro paints. In fact when we shot this car red back in '89 we used Glosserit glossomax single stage Urathane. Within a year I began to notice oxidation starting on the roof! It did however spend that summer pretty much uncovered. With pampered and sheltered life this car will lead from now on I would probably do just fine with old fashioned enamel at this point but I do want the best I can buy just the same. I've noted your clear coat dilemma, Rick suggested using another clear to save money but I will not be doing that after hearing your story.

To quote again the old Saturday Night Live skit about "It's a floor wax"..."No, it's a dessert topping" and the third person jumps in and says "Wait...you're BOTH right!" ...which in this case is all of you.
Thanks Bruce! That reminded me of a lot great times staying up late with my Dad to watch SNL in the late '70's and early 80's with the Original "not ready for prime-time players".
A lot of great advice and first hand experiences here, Thank you!
Justin

BTW Bruce, I'll be agitating the silver metallic between coats with my "Bass-o-matic"

[bbspdstr]

BTW Bruce, I'll be agitating the silver metallic between coats with my "Bass-o-matic"

Justin,
Great stuff...glad your Dad enjoyed that....mine didn't. He was more Monty Python's Brit Colonel with "Too silly....too silly."

Seriously. I don't know what happened to my old original Binks #7 spray gun, but I had an bleed-off air-powered stirrer in the cup for metallics back-in-the-day. Nothing like the Bass-o-matic ....but far less mottling between passes and coats. I have a really nice Sata gravity gun now (like 6-month-old computers, it's now considered obsolete) that I don't use much now that I have two good painters doing that for me. I always said the painting was the fun part. All the work and time in front of that was 'labor', the ~3 hours of final paint was the cheapest part of the job (except for materials... )

-Bruce

[JTR70]

They were all great Bruce, can't forget to mention Benny Hill too! Yeah, I stopped using my Binks #7 back in 93,94ish. Once I bought and used my first gravity feed there was no going back. I used less paint and there was no more residual waste at the bottom of the cup that the syphon tube could not pick-up. I can only equate the two as being like going from a carburetor fed V8 to an EFI V8 for economy and performance. Your right, the actual painting is the instant gratification fun part. Unless of course it begins running or fisheying. Or the shop dog gets in there with his wagging tail "tiger stripping" the side of the car as he's happily following behind you. I think an entire separate thread could filled to the brim with experiences like that...

[bbspdstr]

OK, my favorite:

Using my grandmother's big garage for a spray booth c.'72, I opened one roll-up door and placed box fans under it for exhaust. I used "pole cats" which are spring loaded caps that go over a 2x4 to affix uprights where I needed them and with a staple gun and furnace filters as an inlet, built a nice 'booth.'

Wet the floor and began to lay out the first coat of straight old fashioned enamel, Irish green on a coupe, and a freight train went by not too far away and the garage slightly shook, knocking dirt and dust off the now-vertical top of the door, right down across the fenders. I had to wash down the whole car with reducer and start over. That door top was the only place I had not cleaned, of course.

Until I got one, I used to walk around my various shops muttering "my kingdom for a booth."

That was back when a gallon of paint was about $15...(reds were higher).
-Bruce

[JTR70]

That's a good one! While we can certainly look back on it and laugh, it wasn't too funny at the time I'm sure. I've had to wash a bad coat of paint once or twice myself and I was fit to be tied as I was hand washing it off with lacquer thinner soaked rags. As I rushed to get it off so I could get back to zero I would become even more enraged as my fingers began to stick together. If you give it a chance to go wrong it will most certainly take it. Especially when it comes to wet paint; God is certainly a prankster!

10/9/14
Beginning the last of the re-dos (I hope) before it goes for its final color. The substructer's on both doors and threshold areas were also coated many years ago in that cheap epoxy primer. With the outer skin of this car finally done I am painstakingly stripping these areas back down to metal.

Door removed and will begin stripping the door well and threshold areas. All the while being very carful not to get any paint remover on the outer base coats.

Another redo to address is the mid-lower corner of the door. As I struck it with a hammer to get the proper elevation with the body I cracked both the lead and an old patch joint on the leading edge. This fix has been too depressing to think about for some reason.

Interesting detail here, seems the factory was beginning to play with plastic filler even way back in late 1956. Here is a very small remnant of it.

I remember when I stripped the original silver off back in '87 there was a bright pink silver dollar sized patch of it on both striker posts right where I'm pointing. Once I cleaned it off there was heat shrunk area that it was correcting. However it really was unnecessary as there is no filler there now and seems no real need for it.

Now for the very time consuming chore of stripping clean all the crevices and facets of this inner structure.

Slowly getting there but as you can see still had the turned edges and flanges to go. I also had to take care as not to damage the paint job to the inner face of the door skin and chassis. I do want to reshoot those areas again.

Took a few sessions of careful stripping but I its finally all clean and ready for some DP40.

Now that the rest of the frame was ready for primer I had to take the plunge and knock out this repair to the flange. Cracked patch joint was rewelded, dressed and now in an initial application of solder.

Filed to basic shape here. It took a few tries but it eventually all filled in.

Sanded and finished to final shape.

Again was dreading this PIA redo but was very rewarding this afternoon to have it not hanging over my head any longer. Masking and priming next. Thanks for looking! Justin

[John Pierce]

Justin,

All this tedious work will pay off in the end. Very time-consuming but well worth it.Great job and thanks for posting.

John

[Phil Planck]

Thanks Justin

These pics will come in handy when I start leading.
Also, is the door stop shape "correct"? On T6B the top(horizontal on car) is flat. Yours is depressed where the rubber bump stop is. Another little difference between models?

Phil

[bbspdstr]

.....Especially when it comes to wet paint; God is certainly a prankster!..... Justin

She certainly does have a keen sense of humor...and irony. It has seemed that during hundreds of paintjobs, a few have come out well due to being taken more lightly..basically not giving a s*@#. That's for me as a (now former) painter as well as out-sourced and employed painters.

Sometimes, we try too hard.

The good ol' boys were generally half in the bag when their work was the best.

I think it's the excitement of FINALLY getting to the 'fun part' that needs to be slowed down, and alcohol can do that but certain chemicals can do that better, like THC. Some gauge "time between coats" by the number of cigarettes they smoke. As we age, the slowing down is more natural, but for the last 356 I sprayed a timer was used to be sure I didn't 'jump (with) the gun' or wait too long.

All of the best painters are artists, some trained, a few are 'naturals.' The most important thing to remember is that "it's all in the prep."

Justin, speaking for myself, we have an old small pressure pot for things like door ends, bumper innards and other hard-to-strip parts that don't fit in the indoor cabinet. We use fine new sand, not a chemical remover. Luckily, I have a big lot out back that's gravel, so clean-up of the mess is minimal. I've found that to be the fastest and safest way, weather permitting.

I, too, have found that orange/pinkish filler on 'original' 356s, but usually on later cars....'56 is EARLY for that stuff but I've seen some!

Nice, nice work you and 'da boyz' are doing. That keeps ol' jaded me inspired....thank you!

On a not-so-nice note, last week a nice man trailered a 356 3 hours (each way) to my shop to get an evaluation of work done in a shop local to him. It was the antithesis of the work shown here on this site and the man paid good money for really bad work done by someone(s) who didn't know anything about 356s (or restorastion/bodywork in general). The floor was inverted UP making the tunnel too high, the front end was two pieces that made a 'beak' in the center and the headlight buckets were welded in with no room for gaskets, also the buckets were extremely wall-eyed from the mis-placement of the front corner halves and one was welded in upside down ...and the list went on and on...and the whole thing was coated in cheap gray epoxy primer over very thick plastic filler and the underside and all of the insides were textured with truck bed liner spray. UGH!

The poor owner asked if I could help him and I politely declined. I felt so sorry for that man. Rust and prior collision damage is one thing to repair.....cutting a 356 all apart to redo the (very) bad work of others is not fun or rewarding for me at this stage of my career.

Point of that is......it IS very gratifying to see the work presented here on ABCGT.com and I hope it is contagious or at least educational. Thanks again,
-Bruce

[JTR70]

Thank you John!

I hope they help Phil. Tom is getting ready to solder his car so there will be additional reference here shortly.

No, there is no difference in the snubber mount between model years. These started out flat like all the rest but have bent from the doors being flung open by the previous owners. I made no attempt to fix them because both doors are equally deformed and frankly I think they are better this way. They are completely bottomed out so they are not going to bend further. They still do their job as door does not collide with the body when opened fully. Hell the doors don't hit now even with the rubber snubbers out. Leaving them alone also allows the door to swing open a bit wider when the rubber goes back on and gives me a little more room to get my behind in and out of the car. I'd be a fool to "fix" them.

Thanks for the confirmation on that filler Bruce. I've heard it said that 56-57 was too early for plastic fillers but there it was, indisputable proof that it was at least being experimented with at the time. A portable blaster would have been very nice and would certainly have made short work of the metal I've had to strip but unfortunately that is a luxury I cannot take advantage of given my current shop situation. I have neighbors all around me with no open field or area to operate that kind of equipment without someone bitching. The coffee guy above me whines sometimes if gets a hint of paint fumes in his shop so I am a bit more limited than I used to be back home. I've experienced exactly what you're talking about concerning "trying too hard" during final paint then totally screwing up the job in the process. By the same token some of my tracer coats I couldn't care less about went on glass. I've said it before but the approval of a life long 356 specialist goes along way and I greatly appreciate your last post. There are several really talented guys on here that make me feel that I need to keep upping my game. Hell, one of them made me run out and buy a new TIG welder.
I feel bad for that guy who came to see you but my god cutting out and correcting botched steel work is far more labor intensive than the original rust. John Pierce knows what we're talking about. Did you recommend that he should just try and unload that project?
Thanks again! Justin
10/10/14

Spent the afternoon carefully taping up the door. Also went ahead and stripped out the door glass opening and taped it off. While it won't be seen it would bug me if I left it scaly and nasty down in those flanged areas.

In DP40 this evening. Just have putty up a few divots and imperfections then run some more heavy drip check on a few seams but after that it will finally be ready.