Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[Bill Brown]

OG 110 litre T6 tank

[bbspdstr]

Bill, that is a GT and (through the lid) filler and looks very different from other pictures in various books describing "110 liter" tanks, Scrogham's, etc.

Is that car one of "the two" with an "unusual" tank? I need more education on these "special" items that were options on all by specific on 4-cam cars, such as the one I am doing. Steve Heinrichs' book says that this chassis had a 70 liter tank but either this was a post-Kardex change-over not noted by Porsche or just found decades ago and put in to add ballast to the front end. Or a prior owner liked REALLY long drives without stopping!

I thought that there was a choice of three tanks in a T-6, but tanks to you I now see 4! Please tell, what's "OG"?

Many thanks and looking forward to a continuing education,
Bruce

[Bill Brown]

Hey Bruce....long time! That car is #120271, my old 1962 Carrera Coupe. It was badged as a Carrera2, but had many competition options, including the engine fitted at the factory, 692 3/A #96044. I found the car sitting in the window of the DesMoines Iowa Porsche dealership in the 1980s. It was such a strange car, that I sent Porsche a letter asking for the Kardex. They sent it to me, and much to my surprise, it was delivered with that 1600 Carrera engine. One of my regrets is, that I did`nt keep a copy of that "loaded" Kardex, but I am currently trying to get another copy. Some of the options I clearly remember on that Kardex were: BBAB LSD trans, lightmetal wheels, 60mm brakes, roll bar, electrically heated windshield(which was broken by the bozos at that dealership when they resprayed it silver with huge metalflakes!.) There was a pull switch on the dash with a pilot lite in it to tell the windshield was on. It mentioned the Plexi windows, which were all in place including the rare rear Plexi window. It mentioned the aluminum doors too. The car had its original number stamped steel hood and decklid. My theory is that this T6 was so early that Porsche had not yet tooled up for the T6 aluminum lids, but of course, the doors would have been from earlier production. Kardex also had "Spyder spiegel", auxilliary hornbutton adjacent to the passenger grab handle for the navigator to operate. This car was clearly ordered as a rally car with all these options. It had wire headlite stone guards and hood straps. Driver`s seat was a steel GT seat, wider than a standard Speedster seat, passenger seat was standard. Interior was the GT black vinyl in front and carpet on the rear. There was a pile of paperwork with the car. One document from the Essen dealership in Germany showed that the big tank was fitted to the car post production at some point in its life. Steve Schmidt had/has one of these tanks, and Dave Merz still has one. The car had the standard bumper trim. Also had the Sport I exhaust. When I get the Kardex copy, I will publish it here.....one of the strangest I`ve seen! This was, by far, the rarest Porsche I`ve owned!. BTW....OG = original. I still use one of the original rear Plexi quarter windows as a template for my repro Plexi stamped windows. I sold the car to a Spanish collector of Pegaso cars, Enrique Coma-Cros, who eventually sold it to someone in Germany or Austria from what I`ve heard thru the grapevine. I`d love to find the car again and find out what has been learned about its past history. I contacted two of the previous owners, one named Dean Kemmerer, a retired State patrolman in Clear Lake Iowa, and Sid Jepson, ex PCA Zone 10 rep in DesMoines,






Iowa. I found an ad for the car for sale in Road & Track back in the early 70s listing it for sale by one "Jim Backus" in California....could that be the old actor??

[bbspdstr]

Thanks Bill, good stuff.

Certainly an odd one and I'd like a peek at the paperwork when you get it.

My experience with any heated 356 windshield was with my T-5 GS/GT. Someone shot a bb at it (not you or me as BBs) so I asked Chuck Stoddard if he knew of any. This was in the later '70s, so things were still kicking around the Factory but siphoning off fast. Chuck said that he had seen "a pile" of those heated versions and asked Porsche about them. He said "They wanted too much, so I passed and I guess they threw them away." I read that as they weren't free to Chuck with shipping included.....and gave the car to Tony Euganeo who sold it years later to Parker Tyler who had a buyer...etc, etc....with a bb hole in the front glass.

The C-2 I'm doing had a factory installed radio and the stoneguards and some other stuff, so other than the big tank, it's going back from being an old stripped racer to Kardex. Even the radio serial number was recorded!

I recently heard that the bi-metal wheels for the disc brake cars were also made in all-aluminum for the Factory hillclimb cars. Use 'em for one run and change wheels. Some of those had leaked out into private hands that were used on the street and when Porsche learned of that they did everything in their power to haul 'em back in...safety concerns? Ya think?

BTW, my painter found a "micro silver" that I see now as just like I remember from the '60s when it was a single stage baked enamel (and lasted about 3 years before turning to something looking like a gray primer). On this C-2 with a thin coat of clear, this micro-silver looks as 'correct' as one can get now-a-days...silver without the obvious metallic flakes.

So how many liters was that tank you pictured?

Best regards,
Bruce

[Bill Brown]

That`s a 110 litre tank. It had a chrome locking gas cap.

[JTR70]

Hey Duncan, Can't thank you enough for that really nice post and for following this build! Once completed this shell will need to be media blasted again to remove all the flash-rust that has accumulated and to also rough up and etch those shiny new Trevor Marshall body panels both front and back to give the primer something to hang onto. Thanks once again!



It was sort of a quick mock up when I took that photo Jay D so its giving that impression.




No worries Jack, I always appreciate the input. I'm following the same protocol as I did with the rest of the body; the closing panels (IE doors, decklid, hood) are fully adjusted with latch first. That is of course ground zero and until you have that you've got a whole lot of nothing. Well, not nothing you will have a ton of trouble and heartache if you were to press on and begin adding in the body panels with the expectation of it all just falling together after the fact. Agree, I did jump the gun the first time when I tacked the braces on practically right out of the box. This time around they were cut apart, built to suit and located in their factory position against a front end I have all but sighted in. They where ready to "get married" Jack who am I to keep them apart? The braces aren't in the way and are already performing the job of hooking the buckets and stabilizing the lower corners.



As you stated things will change and will need additional adjustments as more parts are added into the mix but where I have the nose set now it won't be greater than 1/4 inch worth in any direction. The braces are well within range to accommodate any needed change. What makes this possible is the fender mounted tab is still just screwed into place.(and or clamped like in this shot) This has freed me up to comfortably commit to the braces. Also too without the ability to remove these tabs I could not install or remove the nose to clear the braces. So it is the tab placement that will be the very last thing to be welded once I have the fenders and all the rest of it set.


Bruce that is a spectacularly beautiful tank conversion!! One question: how will you seal the inside thoroughly to prevent future corrosion? I had an original GT tank with the lead coating long gone. I wanted to use the tank sealer I've seen offered but I always feared the joints in and around the baffling would never be completely or properly protected.




Man Bill, that was one special car!!!!!! Please think about a dedicated thread in the 4-cam section so it doesn't get buried in the shuffle here.




Thanks again you guys!!

Justin

[JTR70]

12/13/16

Front end fitment continued

Added my bottle jack to hold the wall a few MM's over where I needed it as I added set screws to help lock it in position.

The nose still needed to slid over a touch more so I removed a strip out of the flange for the needed clearance.

That gave me the needed shoulder clearance to move it over.

Right side flanges now finally seated.

Slowly getting my alignment back but this time with the right mating flanges seated. You can see here that the hoods edge and new opening lip are not a perfect match so its down to best average fit.

The overbite was back but I didn't expect it to be right everywhere on the first try.

Lower skirt line as been a concern from the start as it began very high.

Referenced against an original you can see that I'm within about 5mm. Its pretty close and I'm not sure if I should chase it down a little closer. The variable here is that its a repop nose so its not an exact match to begin with so I've decided to hold off here for now and will let the contour and fitment of the fenders determine whether or not the entire nose needs to come down more to match the original.

After a few rounds additional adjustment the nose was a little closer still.


Levelness against the latched hood is thankfully pretty constant until I get to the back.

The left side is a little worse. Not ready just yet but this section will have to be relief cut to get it level.


Alignment is getting better toward the front. Really obsessing here as I want the need for lead to be minimal.

Went about as far as I could go and was now time to add in another part.

I've been dreading this one but was now time to deal with it. Adding this panel will support the center of the nose to further establish it and will change things requiring more adjustments all at the same time.
Have to trim, shape and get the mount flange surface in just the right spot. A new adventure in bullshit. Its been set and done as of this entry and will post that up next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

12/14/16

Upper closing wall fitment

I suspected several weeks back that there was going to be a ton of ceremony required before these two mating surfaces of the wall's flange and closing trough interfaced and met in the "sweet spot".

Since the latch assembly ties directly into this wall I had to get it stabilized and locked into its correct position first. The wall has to accommodate this as well as support the nose in its adjusted position. Another instance where there is a lot of little things all going on at once. Simple holding jig for the latch base whipped up here.

The latch mechanism is pretty much the center of the universe up here so with that set I could continue shaping this panel around it. Two relief cuts where added to the upper flange a while ago as the curve profile needed tightening almost immediately after the trial fitment to the nose.

Began very conservatively by trimming out strips of the flange mainly out at the sides to slowly allow it to slip down into position.

Then mounted back on the car for another test with the nose.

Slowly improved with each try as it was repeated a few times.

As the fitment improved with the nose flange I begin tying the sides together. This was just another jumping off point as more adjustments would follow. Angle iron was clamped to hold the lateral walls in position so I could remove the nose.

Coming into focus at the sides but the rest of the upper flange was still pretty scary.

More upper flange shaping next.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[JTR70]

12/14/16

Upper closing wall part 2


Finally got the sides of the flange trimmed back and relaxed enough to allow the center portion of it to reach the nose.

panel and nose were remounted once again this time with the center section clamped together. Much to my amazement this flange was holding the nose a touch too high. The damn thing was too tall. By how much though & without going too far?? What I ended up doing was unscrewing the lower step run from the battery wall allowing it to slide down. The skin was remounted in its adjusted position and the upper center portion of the flange was clamp on tight again as pictured...

Then I etched a line (arrow) right where the step should be for a correct fit. About a 1/4 inch too tall.


Just looking at it I was so convinced that the center of this flange was going to be way short and that I'd have to rebend it higher and add some material back on to catch the nose again; Not the case.

New bend line set a 1/4 inch lower. The approximate difference between the scribe line and that lower step.

Began heeling it over along the new line slowly with hammer and dolly.

Panel and nose refitted...AGAIN and it all was beginning to fit together as a unit.

it was fitting so well that it was possible to run a couple of screws in.

By sessions end this panel was a little closer still but more yet to do. That next.
Thanks for reading this!
Justin

[Jack Staggs]

Nice work, Justin. Please be sure to fit the "dick" for the hood latch to allow perpendicular engagement to the receiver before you go much further. This was discussed at length with "foam car" Phil Planck. He had considerable trouble there on a "done" car.

[JTR70]

Thanks Jack!



The hood is "anatomically correct" and the approach angles were set to parallel with one another several weeks ago. The mechanism is fully operational. Great point though, if the alignment is even just slightly out, the shoulder of the peg can get hooked on the edge of the mechanism base locking the hood down. That happened for a brief second as I adjusted for that quick holding jig. I had it pulled back just a touch too far and it hooked the peg. Fortunately at this point it was a matter of removing the upper wall with three screws and realigning it in clear view and as you stated its much easier to fix now rather than later after the car is finished and you REALLY find yourself locked out of the trunk.
Thanks again!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Really some job you had there in these last few pages. So much to think about as you are doing it.

I have a daft question. You show the really good front lid to front nose gap clearance that you have done so well with. The lid aligns so well to the nose but what happens when you put in the rubber seal? Will that not lift the lid? I know seals affect closure and I remember well you always mentioning rubber seals and how many times you took yours on and off on the Carrera.

I must have missed something

Roy

[bbspdstr]

I am so-o-o-o glad to see this work memorialized here with photos. Kindred projects and it's good to know 'we' are not alone!

'We' always tape the type of lid seal that will eventually reside there when any fitting is done. I recommend the seals from Tim Goodrich for anything Speedster-specific and intend to buy more from him as soon as I have some money....if he is still able to sell.

I should not continue on that sub-topic. It's both sad and scary to me. I take refuge in pounding on cars and think less that way of my own mortality.

Back to work.....
Bruce

[bbspdstr]

110 liter tank question. Justin, you wrote:

One question: how will you seal the inside thoroughly to prevent future corrosion?

The inside has been bead-blasted while apart. Rick and I fit the neck into the upper tank part "in situ" at my shop, as Rick had used 4 pop-rivets to hold upper and lower parts together. He is now going to paint the majority of the tank parts and especially the better-than-OEM baffles with Caswell epoxy tank seal (the best) while apart, masking a few inches inside of each next to the joining flange to be coated after seam welding. That area can be coated the usual way....poured thru the neck and then rolled on each side to connect the first applications and be sure the seam is sealed. the most important part is to mask the drain outlet thoroughly to not get any on the threads, as those are very difficult to clean if epoxy cures on them.

Thanks,
Bruce

[JTR70]

Thank you Roy! The seal is still just a bit too far out in the distance yet. I haven't even finished laying down the track (The fender sections)for it to even sit in. I'll slip one in eventually as it gets closer but everything is in such a state of flux at the moment that it just hasn't entered the equation...yet.

No way we're alone Bruce; has to be a bunch of guys out there toiling away and suffering in silence. Thanks for reminding me about Tim, I need to get some seals ordered too if its still possible.
Justin

12/15/16
More upper wall flange fitment

Running those pair of screws in earlier also allowed me to relocate the wall on the skin while dismounted from the car so I could finish up the flange shape.

Additional clearance trimming as it went.

I used the nose as the hammer form along with a little torch heat so I could just pat it down and not have to beat the hell out of the nose.


Wasn't sure about those relief cuts when I put them in but it turned out to be the right way to go. You can see how much overlap there ended up being.

Fitting snuggly just about all the way around here. Another round of trimming to the left edge though. It changed attitude as it went so several rounds a re-trimming where needed.

wall now remounted and ready for yet another test fit to see what I had now.

It was very close and encouraging. In fact it was so close that I added more screws tying in the sides at a new adjusted position. Began stitching the relief cuts too.

Initial fitment had this rounded profile a little to flat or sitting upright. After all the changes to the flange it began to lay out farther like my original walls show. Much to my relief.

Full mock up with latched hood. Upper wall and nose are now securely tied together and it remains close.

Had to set up the emergency pull to release the latch mechanism.

Not a 100% as its going to change as the fenders are fit and added but its good enough for now so I can continue onward.

final welding and as Roy mentioned the eventual seal is going have an effect. A lot of variables still coming my way.

For the moment however, the hood opens, closes and latches just like my reference coupe. Even the secondary hook is doing its job. On the surface this may not seem like a big deal but if this is your first one and you've come from thin air with mostly repro and stray original used parts it is a huge win and relief for a hack like me. Just the sound of the latch engaging and then the hood springing up on release was wonderful.


With all that in mind the icing on the cake was looking down in here an seeing that wall I was greatly intimidated by tucking in like it should.

Reinvigorating while it lasted but time to move on.

Harvesting and installing the original drain tube next.
Thanks for looking at this!
Justin