Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[roy mawbey]

Thanks for explaining about the seal, you see, you are 50 steps ahead of me that's just looking! The way you advance on this job just keeps amazing me.

No wonder you liked opening and closing that lid just to hear the click! I still feel that delight every time I now start my car hot or cold and it fires up like my BMW ! It is an amazing feeling when things go as you want them to. ( I wonder if Mic cured his starting problem not heard from him now for some months? )

Roy

[JTR70]

Thank you Roy, the sound of that latch engaging then not being locked out of the trunk after the fact was a huge victory for me.

12/20/16

Drain tube

The holes for this tube where flare punched originally so a smaller hole was drilled then the opening was heated and flared with this spike handled wrench as I did for the E-brake bungs some time back.

Opened to size and manipulated into the needed position.

Upper hole located and also flared open.

A small detail but that is what I wanted to see when I look up at the underside of this nose.

One thing I did learn is that all the welding at least around the bottom of the tube will have to be completed before the mechanism base can go on for good.

Positioned and set the front end about as far as I can on its own. Now time to begin fitting the fenders for contour to confirm 100% that its in the right spot. Fender fitment up next.
Thanks for stopping by!
Justin

[Jack Staggs]

Justin

I'd be tempted to deal with the apparent rust issues on the hood, as well as the "mummy skin" right inner panel damage at this point. It's impossible to anticipate the changes in tension and movement of a few mm. As you know, while endlessly fitting the panels, things can move around inexplicably, and the slightest adjusments can make all the difference. Just a thought... I'd be hard pressed to do what you are doing.

[JTR70]

Thanks Jack, I remember us just getting into that discussion at your shindig last Saturday. I'll clean the area to see how far the rot goes here shortly.

12/22/16

Left fender fitment.

Initially removed the front for more gap adjustment freedom.

Initial gap was a touch too tight.

Have a lot of subtle adjustment to go at the corner as the panels meet and make the turn.

An initial fitment and contour concern is at the fenders crown profile to the transition onto the cowl/door profile.

Fender stands proud and is creating a trough. I think a lot of it will work itself out as trimming continues but it is an initial concern.

Fender hangs and contorts too much under its own weight so I added the nose back on to support it.

Speaking of the nose, Trevor leaves the leading edge for you to finish rolling tight so that was another little side chore to begin taking care of.

Fender was getting closer but lots of fine adjustment, trimming and jockeying yet.


ready to begin trimming away some of the excess on the nose next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[Jack Staggs]

Really nice to see you on Sat!
I like how Trevor leaves quite a bit of extra material to trim on the nose and the front of the fender, but it could be longer at the cowl. How are you determining the fore/aft position of the wheel arch?

[JTR70]

Thanks Jack!
Yeah, I'm really bummed out with that rear joint at the cowl coming up short.

My initial fitment baseline for this fender was the rear wired lip and my best average gap contour against the trunk.

After this initial trim to remove the excess that was intruding into the wheel arch a new perspective opened up.

Once the entire arch profile was unobstructed this forward corner just didn't look right. It seemed too skinny. I thought at first that opening might be too big but a few comparison measurements confirmed that Trevor damn near got this opening right on the money.

Needed to figure out what the distance was on my original. I decided on a length of tape set at the center edge of the horn grill opening straight to the lip.

Same piece of tape was positioned in the same spot.

It was a good 3/4 of an inch narrower. Confirmation that my eyes weren't playing tricks on me.


Slowly began moving the fender back a little at a time. Its almost there in this shot but still a little more to go. Magic marker line highlights where it started from.

I of course lost my initial wired edge alignment back here but I'll fix it like I did the rear arches.

This was the right move as a lot of fitment issues immediately got better. The corner looked right and the overlap joint between the nose and fender is lying a lot closer. The fore and aft adjustment is pretty much dialed in so I'm back to trunk gaps and top profile transition to the cowl and door.
Thanks again!
Justin

[JOP]

Moin Justin,
Dont you use the wheel center as an alignment as well ?
And then measure like you did with known distance that can be trusted....
Also If you go from top of wheel arc/wheel center and upwards to truck area to have a distance to play with there.....
I can get you the Speedster measurements later today IF it helps you.
Wireedges can not always be trusted to be 100% correct....and then just get an alignment that works for you and looks right

Are U not @ home when Santa comes by this year?
Hoo hoo hoo

[roy mawbey]

That's some job to get looking correct. Datums are so difficult sometimes to get correct.The fact you have an original that looks correct to the eye is for me the number one choice. That measurement you made Justin to compare I think was your best choice. If it looks perfect in comparision to the original, and it ties in better in every other respect, you must be on a winner. Sure the wired edges need work but although again difficult you have experience on that.

You cannot do this work though without having a perfect example to refer to. Well done!

Roy

[bbspdstr]

I am also blessed by having a Speedster at the shop that I know quite well. Never hit, I have been making as many cardboard templates as I can to check. While discrepancies will occur on every 356 'made by hand,' getting the closest symmetry side-to-side PLUS the 'eye' confirmation is a must. The example shown is verifying a repaired area on another Speedster...the work being almost an exact repetition of Justin's project.

I must also agree with Jack (again) that getting the front lid/cover/bonnet finished is critical while attending parts are still adjustable. EVERYTHING is based on an average...gaps and the like...but the latch has it's own geometry. Get the latch upper and lower parts set in a middle position and then the "wiggle room" needed later is possible.

All of this work became clear this past Monday when Ray Wills told me the meaning of the Porsche model number 356. Ray said that number comes from "Having to do things at least 3, maybe 5 or 6 times to get them right."

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy New Year, etc, etc....
Bruce

[bbspdstr]

..........and yes, JOP, I would be very happy to see a copy of the Speedster dimensions, as that is not in any of my Factory literature but over the years I have seen it as a poster and never been able to buy a copy!
Thanks,
Bruce
bbspdstr@aol.com

[JTR70]

I really appreciate all the feedback guys! I will be going back to those cardboard templates to check for wheel opening "center" and symmetry side to side but I'm not there just yet. You guys are really getting ahead of me. BTW: thanks for those factory dimensions Per. I've noted that wheel opening center from the back tip of the suspension horn. Thanks also for offering to measure off of your Speedster but this is nothing Speedster unique. No difference between Speedster or coupe concerning the front end group.

I would be absolutely toast without original reference cars Roy.

That quarter panel is really shaping up beautifully Bruce!

Thanks again guys and wishing you all well in the coming new year!
Justin

[JTR70]

1/4/17

Happy New year to everyone!

Finally got past all the holiday distractions freeing me up to put more time back in this project. I can't say exacly when I'll be done here but I can say that 2017 will be my last year with this
project then it becomes the bodyshops "baby". A nice light I'm now seeing in this tunnel.

Template and measurements for front wheel arch.

Checking the opening for center with the chassis first.

Arch opening coming in at 29 inches with yard stick edge positioned at level with the bottom of the doors edge.

Center is going to be 14.5 inches.



Using my square (with extension) shouldered up against the shock mount surface to ensure its sitting at square here. Leading edge is set at flush with the back tip of the upper horn which will be the center of the eventual wheel according to the factory diagram that Per was nice enough to post a while back. Current position has the center of this arch within a few MM's of "center" at the frame. In other words its all good.

Checking for wheel arch height against an original next. My baseline is the bottom edge of the doors since rockers are not original and will most certainly vary a little.

Careful mock up on my coupe was next. Biggest danger was scratching or chipping my new finish.


Luckily I got it in without damage. Position with the doors lower edge then the arch was traced.

Mounted back on the car to see how it compares with an original.

At the moment I'm higher by about a 1/2 inch. There is plenty of trimming and fine fitment yet to come which will allow this lip to slide down further but its certainly within striking distance either way.
Basic fender placement established. Setting the gap against the latched hood next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JOP]

That looks really good Justin
But you say only 1/2" diff and I say it is atleast 11-13 mm off
I guess I need to send you a ruler that is 4000 mm to keep you covered
You have learned alot on this 356 so will 8 months hold on next project?
Cheerio

[JTR70]

Sorry Per, I know standard measurements drive you nuts..old habits die hard. No, what I have learned is I need more than 8 months for anything 356 related. Thanks again!

1/5/17


Took Jack's advice and cleaned off the "mummy skin" on the front of this hood.

Though deeply pitted it only went through in few spots here and there.

I tested the area thoroughly with a poker and it was stable much to my suprise however I'm under no illusions, the back side has to be as equally rusty and pitted so it is a time bomb. I'll talk with the owner to discuss our options. (patch versus blobing the holes closed)


Fender to hood gap set initally. Alot of variables in fitment here. With this set screwed on the gap would close up as I manipulated the lower areas into alignment. Slight adjustments to the lower corner with the rocker for example. Alot of fit and refit in trying to get all of the fender in the right spot usually under some form of tension.

I was finally comfortable enough with lower corner's best alignment with the rocker to add in a quick set screw. Again this is all just a jumping off point as it will most certainly change shape as things progress and will have to compensate for that when it happens. I know these overall shoots are beginning to look identical but the pieces are fitting closer with each new post. Moving onto the right side fender tomorrow.
Thanks for stopping by!
Justin

[JTR70]

1/14/17
Begin Right fender fitment

Started with dialing in the best average fit.

Best initial gap and corner fitment against the hood here. Next was finding out how off the wheel arch is from center with the chassis.


After some slight adjustment center was eventaully located. Upper gap and corner alignment was effected during this so alot trim, try and retry was process. The hood also had to be removed and reinstalled with each pass too. A total PIA but I eventually won.


Arch height is suprisingly close to original right off the bat.

Nose laid over top and set screwed into its inital sweet spot.

Getting better as the days go by. The gap at the nose is large because of all the excess and overlap not allowing it to seat all the way down. Next is removing the excess and deciding which side of the joint I'm going to keep or remove.

Begin by clearing away the initial excess on the nose side at the wheel opening.

Alot of careful deliberation and planning before I commit to cutting off the overlap of either side. I'm thinking it will most likely be a combination of both sides. Either way I'm just taking extra precaution so I don't have to weld a section back on because I committed too soon.

Planning my trim lines next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin