Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[Phil Planck]

Justin
I assume this is at least not a Michigan car. Imagine the extra rust beyond what you have if so. The gusset seems like a good idea. Keep thinking.

Phil

[Ciscokid8]

Ya, i agree, the gusset is a good idea.

[Jack Staggs]

I'll go into it later but the plan for my coupe is a 901 converted to swing-axle along with a custom fabricated shifter base and tower that will mount to the existing T1 shifter...

Be careful there. A standard A shifter will result in a reversed shift pattern, ie: 1st gear will be where 3rd is normally, 2nd at 4th position, 3rd at first, and 4th at 2nd, reverse at full right hand side.

[JTR70]

Thanks for the confirmation Phil! Its from back East but not sure if it was the Southern or Northern part. Either way it was exposed to a lot of moisture and or humidity.
Thank you Jeff, being an off-roader I know you can spot the advantage in adding it.

Thanks Jack! I should have mentioned that the shifter, pivot and tunnel rod will all be 901 based. The custom mount I have planned will be the bridge that will allow the unit to be mounted (as rearward as possible)to the T1 tunnel without modifications to it.

Thanks again you guys!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Just looked closely at the windscreen pillar and your comments about rust. I found the rust holes on the last few shots. It is truely amazing how it creeps everywhere.Just how many people really understand that. I can see more and more how restoration costs can go sky high.Any PPI will never find more than 50% of the rust I think. The other 50% remains hidden for ever till you hit something a little hard. Your comment about windscreen cracking makes sense if the location for it is suspect.

As always really interesting thread. Wish Las Vagas was just down the road, would really like to see your 356 work.

Roy

[bbspdstr]

.......Thanks Jack! I should have mentioned that the shifter, pivot and tunnel rod will all be 901 based. The custom mount I have planned will be the bridge that will allow the unit to be mounted (as rearward as possible)to the T1 tunnel without modifications to it......Justin

I must get all the '52-to-rat-rod pictures organized. Maybe they could be of some help? We made the tunnel due to the weakness of the '52, which was bought after having been dipped. The donor car for the rear tube, etc, did give us the innards of tunnel and shifter, rear suspension and torsion tube. Glad to have the chassis jig and rotisserie, both of which got some adaptation modification from being for 'merely a 356.'

[JTR70]

Thanks a lot Roy! Yes, this rusty frame has been an eye-opener as to the amount of deep sub-structure cancer that can easily go undetected. It is too bad we are so geographically challenged but you're of course welcome anytime!

Bruce, that looks like a really slick conversion! I see you also grafted in the upper shock mount/cross member. Was this ultimately a 6 cylinder conversion? If you can round them up I'd love to see more shots of this build! Thanks for posting this one!
Justin

[JTR70]

7/5/14
Left A-pillar reinforcement gusset.

Since this pillar section is so rusty and weak at the base and now hanging out in space I thought it best to get it stabilized now.

Paper template development begins.

A very complex-compound angular shape so a lot of splicing and a lot of masking tape required.

A very rough guestimation on the eventual relief cup position but it looks like the tip will just begin at the gusset.

Ready to move onto metal

Basic shape here though some fine fitment still to come. Once the new dash is mounted and this area is in correct flat-black this addition will be hard to detect and most likely go unnoticed. I thought about punching some holes in to lighten it but that would only draw attention to it so I'll save that treatment for my coupster.

Ready to make the outer closing section; by far the easiest of the two pieces.

My previous locating jig for the heater tabs can be repurposed for this closing panel.

Very rough mock up with the eventual remounted original outer closing wall.

No trace of the gusset once this wall goes back on. Will begin welding it in tomorrow. Thanks for looking! Justin

[JTR70]

7/6/14
Left A-pillar gusset complete.

Began welding in the outer section first so I could get to the plug-welds on this inner flange before I boxed it up.

Plug and seam welded the outer flanges. A lot of extra time was taken to ensure the pillar did not move during this install phase.

Could not get a clean shot at the very bottom here due to the support Jig. It won't be a problem as it can be finished up at anytime down the road.

Inner closing wall was installed last.

Another mock up with the old closing wall to show that this addition will cause no fitment issues what so ever with the original parts.

Needles to say this stub-end became a lot more stable once the welding was complete.

Repeat on the right side next. The rust holes at the base say that the story will be much the same as the left side. Opening it up tomorrow.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[Don C]

Nice work Justin! That access/lightening hole looks factory.

[Phil Planck]

I cease to be amazed by your work Justin. Hope I'm still around when this is finished. Curious, is there any issues with Speedster windshield cracking due to flexing of the frame? My old 100-4 Healey sure had a problem with that with the "high speed position" feature.
Phil

[JTR70]

Thanks Don! I wanted to add a hole to the other side too but I don't want to draw any attention to this "unauthorized" gusset.

I hope I am around to see this finished too Phil. I don't have enough first hand experience with Speedsters to say if there was a cracking problem due to the frames flexing. I think that would be a question for Bruce or Jack. Thanks again guys!

7/7/14
Right A-pillar prep.
All stripped down this afternoon.

Peeling off the outer face plate to reveal almost identical conditions.

Lots of water spent time in here to produce lots of scale.

So far only one obvious rust hole but I'm sure more will make themselves known as I clean the area.

Paper templates from the other side flipped over which saves a good chunk of time. Moving onto metal tomorrow. Thanks for reading this! Justin

[JTR70]

7/7/14
First official Speedster specific change over to this old coupe chassis.

A very Subtle detail difference between coupe and Speedster is the height at which the hoods rest in the open locked position. I was made aware of this difference several years ago by my good friend Ric Marcus.

This vintage assembly line photo courtesy of Bruce Baker clearly illustrates the difference between the two. I understand that this change was made to the speedster to remedy the back edge of the hood colliding with the windshield wipers to unlock the hinges. The hinges needed to disengage sooner so the locking spur mount hole was lowered and in turn lowered its open resting position.

To recreate this detail full removal of the hinge bosses was of course necessary.

Spent the last part of today's session drilling out the 20+ spot-welds and the gas welds at the top and bottom.

With the housing free you can see the pen pointing to the locking mechanism hole that needs lowering.

It is this spur that bolts into this hole.

This conversion is of course not going to be as simple as redrilling the hole. As you can see above both sides have an inner reinforcement plate that needs to be cut free and repositioned.

To get at those plates requires that the hinge boss come apart. I suspect that this hole only needs to be moved its width downward. I'll get some measurements from my friends speedster before the week is out. Anyway it can't be much. This might be a silly detail to chase by some but I think if you're going to sacrifice a real 356 chassis these days you better go all the way! IMHO. No "skunkwagons"!
Thanks for looking! Justin

[roy mawbey]

[bbspdstr]

.......I don't have enough first hand experience with Speedsters to say if there was a cracking problem due to the frames flexing.

You all know the difference between an "accident" and a "stupident." Speedsters are sturdy, much more so than their more "sophisticated" younger siblings, the D's and Roadsters. The Speedster glass doesn't break on it's own, they get broken.

Breakage comes from poor fit, forced fit, frame intrusions from hardware, pushing the car from too high up on the side of the frame, too tight a top fit before it naturally shrinks, a rough area on the edge that becomes a 'stress riser' or some other abuse or defect. Or from not paying attention. Or a rock.

'Flex,' however, does not bother either type of removable 356 windshield. The (unibody)front is the front and the rear is the rear. Those 2 end boxes can be seemingly flexed one to the other by what softens by rust, the center 3 tubes and the attending vertical parts (vertical is where the real strength is), the rockers. The tube is the strongest assembly. The center tunnel is a rectangular tube, but it can be called the backbone, but it is weaker toward the 'head.' The 2 main tubes are the longitudinals, a tube made by combining the inner and outer. Those are even stronger in the early cars with a tube front to rear for the heater air, a tube inside the bigger tube.

Coupes are made with a 'bridge' between the two boxes, so they are much more stable, even with bad rusting affecting the strength of the sheet metal.

When the cars were newer (the 'newest' Speedster in my personal experience was still 9 years old when I bought it) and it didn't flex much. Gaps were good, door shutting was fine but the side curtains were no better than my bugeye Sprite's...which had better visibility. The A-H bugeye was also a unibody car and I had no issues with the windshield on that...and it was almost new when I got that, too.

I reinstalled a Speedster windshield yesterday. The frame had been rechromed and the brass at the latch screw holes was compromised by the buffing of the brass plus previous overtightening and the trimmer installing a new top pulled the latch out of it's (meagerly engaged) holes on one side. I made 4 low 5 mm nuts for the inside to be no more of an intrusion than the screws and 'relieved' the rubber gasket for clearance with an x-acto and now all is well.

What I did notice was that the screw holes in the frame were at different heights side-to-side. More "made by hand."

-Bruce