Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[bbspdstr]

Justin wrote:"You might get okay coverage by blowing paint up here after the fact but nothing like spraying them before hand."

Something to try on those soon-to-be hidden areas in pre-assembly is brushing the epoxy primer where it isn't seen, less mess, no overspray. If it's a small area, I use a throw-away 'acid brush' or cheapie brush that can be cleaned a couple of times for more use. Mixing a small amount of a catalyzed product in any recycled aerosol cap, yogurt cup, frozen dinner tray, whatever, makes for easy clean-up. Then, it can all go in the recycle can. We need to cut down on waste AND time when we are 'on the clock.'

Another product I use is a copper-based spray from various producers like SEM, available through auto paint or welding supply outlets. It's a better "weld-through" primer that promotes the weld and yet secures the area around the weld...or between plug welds or spot welds, etc. I saw the tape on the soon-to-be-welded areas in your pictures and thought of that right away.

The upper area in the rear is smaller than in the front but both are very tight for future work of any kind. Even Porsche mostly missed those areas with the great enamel primer they used which wrapped over or into most all areas of a 356 and was then baked. We'll even spray some aerosol undercoat over the epoxy for continuous texture, even where no one will ever see it...any of it.

Of course, we seem to want our work to last more than just another 51+ years, don't we?

Thanks for the nice remarks about my writing. I enjoy doing that on this site. ((Sorry it's only in English! Entschuldigen mir))(My goal is to be better at another language, as so many on this site are!) I do the cars for a living, so I guess writing is perhaps a hobby. Writing about the cars is from the heart...I know I'll never make a real living at either....

Bruce

[JTR70]

Definitely Bruce a good old fashioned brush along with gravity's help before it comes of the rotisserie would get some coverage in those hard to reach areas. Mark Erbesfield had the novel idea of using a seringe to inoculate those tight areas with some coverage. I've seen Phil using that copper weld through primer you've described; I'll grab a can of it next time I'm at the store.
Thanks again! Justin

1/30/17

Nose section mounted for good.

After some light readjustment I had my basic gap as close as I was going to get it. I began tacking from the center outward. Part of that was also tacking onto the latch base and finally allowing the safe removal of that temporary holding bar I had in there.

Fully latched once more just to make sure it all still lined up and operated properly. I was really worried about getting locked out if the mechanism jamed. Thankfully it popped right open. Dodged another bullet.

While close, the gap has changed a touch and gotten wider toward the bottom. Nothing serious but a slight change.


Not obsessing over it because its still within range and there is alot more variance yet to come as more welding and the fenders are added. Anyway from here on in this old girl keeps her new face on.

With that I was ready to commit and begin welding from the center outward.


Gas welded the drain tube and upper run of the latch base as originally found.

Most of the plug welds at the center were set before I fused the latch area.

Entire run all stitched in. A bit a fear soon set in as I worred about possible changes to the base from all the heat. Fortunately it did not.

I was finally able to try out those perches with a real jack; everything seems to fit fine.

I remember initially mocking all this up trying to get my head around exactly how I was going to make all these panels fit and work together correctly. This was sort of the mental checklist: That crazy curved inner panel thats not fitting too flush at the moment has to butt up tight to the nose, hold the nose in the sweet spot so its gapped nicely against the hood. Then the latch base must be attached to it at just the right attitude so it engages correctly. "your in way over your friggen head here" These where all the thoughts and doubts I was going through when I took this photo. All I could do was put one foot in front of the other and the next step slowly revealed itself. So in other words you just have to go slow and take it as step at a time. If I did it so can you.

As you've probably gathered, I am so very relieved to have this section behind me.


Onto the fenders next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[big jock]

Great work as always.Would it not have been worthwhile to invest in a spot welder instead of plug welds and all that grinding afterwards? Im more than sure you will have a reason but obviously there would be much less heat and movement,less prep after and it would have that 'original' look.I love your posts,well done.

[JTR70]

Thanks alot Duncan!

The main reason I prefer plug-welds is that I don't entirely trust the fusion strength of readily available spot welders. If you've ever tried to split apart a factory spot welded panel you soon realize that you must drill out the entire spot otherwise the panel will tear or simply won't pry apart until you do so. On the other hand I've had to cut apart several of these new panels that were spot welded with what's probably a readily available spotter and they come apart with almost no fuss. I don't even have to drill out the entire spot, just the core, then I take my blade and tap it in and almost immediately I get a nice "Tick" when the spot gives up quite easily. I've had the unfortunate chore of going back and removing a panel I had previously plug welded and it puts up just as much fight as the factory spotted panel I replaced. This confirms, at least to me that the panel is secured as close to factory specs as I can reproduce in a hobby shop. For a more factory "look" those heads will all be ground smooth and I can then go over that run with my Panel spotter for effect. I remember Bruce saying you can get a spotter that will reproduce the quality of factory welds but that unit is in the 30K price range; so not in the budget.
Thanks again!
Justin

[JTR70]

1/31/17

Car mounted fully back on the hoist.

The nose was buttoned up just enough to allow remounting on the rotisserie. The ability to tilt it will make fitting the fenders alot more pleasant.

Initial remounting of the fenders has my gaps all tightened up again.
More fine tuning adjustment required to get them back open.

Similar story on the right fender as well. Fixing those now.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[bbspdstr]

Justin wrote: "Love to see Ted's tack strip if you get a chance."

Fitting the metal to the wood. We are to the point where we do need to shape the wood slightly more to the metal that can't be moved. I cannot see a reason to have done the early Cabriolet top rear attachment this way other then the design was based on old fashioned "coachbuilding".....as in coaches drawn by horses.
Edit: The last non-Porsche I worked on was a '37 Cord 812 drop-top and there was wood in all aspects of that body, doors, rear lid, etc. It was a body welded to a frame with an independent front sub-frame, theoretically a "unibody" design. I also restored an old Morgan about 20 years ago and had a lot of wood to deal with in that job.
This Cab is a carry-over from the T-0 into the very early T-1. '56 model year, '55 build. Half of the floor was 'pre-A' and so was the front nose panel. The holes in the front flanks would take either "Continental" or those post-confrontation with Ford, "European." The owner has been doing his homework and keeps me well-guided but now is getting a challenge as to which radio is correct. We only know that the one that came in it is not. Details, details.





We had to modify a long chisel to shear off the upward screws that were blind after the metal was assembled after the wood was installed, then fashion a long scraper from an old extended screwdriver to coax the remains of the original wood way up toward the door. This is the first time I have replaced the whole of the wood in that cavity.
Note the box the wooden parts arrived in.....a piece of woodworking art in itself. Also see a NOS later rear cowl underside for a Cabriolet and while similar, how different the details are.

Justin, this car also has had a lot of what you are going through in the metal parts of the body. Wasn't that rusty but had some residual collision damage that took a LOT of measuring, jacking, pulling and replacing or making of parts that really became a challenge to get "right." I was actually surprised that the car survived and was saved from it's long-ago hit(s), from what was uncovered! With these cars, people at all levels in each step have to be really committed to and love these old Porsches.

I should BE committed for making a call to my local Porsche dealer for parts, waiting forever for the parts department on hold and listening to recorded messages about how great that dealership is for every facet they offer. I called back after my business with the parts department was connected to talk to the GM. I offered a friendly reminder that the recorded hold blurbs included misinformation. I cheerily reminded him that they sell, service and have many other offerings for the brand Porsche, not "Porsch." That drives me nuts. They can no longer sell a "Porsch" as the 914, 924 and 944 and 928 models are NLA. (oops, those have been replaced by the Panamera, the Cayanne, the Macan, etc.)

Bruce (Porsch-AH owner since all they made were 356s)

[Carrera_The_Kid]

[quote="bbspdstr" post=37178]
This Cab is a carry-over from the T-0 into the very early T-1. '56 model year, '55 build. Half of the floor was 'pre-A' and so was the front nose panel. The holes in the front flanks would take either "Continental" or those post-confrontation with Ford, "European." The owner has been doing his homework and keeps me well-guided but now is getting a challenge as to which radio is correct. We only know that the one that came in it is not. Details, details.
[/quote

Bruce, the Reutter production books will have the radio type and number. On these real early A cars you most often see either a Blaupunkt a Telefunken. Rarely will you see a Becker.

The early A cars are interesting. I have a feb '56 GS coupe which we will be starting on soon. Some interesting details such as painted wheel, undercoated lids etc.

Which supplier do you use for your T0 front clips? I am thinking of getting one from Trevor as the previous owners of my car appeared to have had a tendency of bumping it around.

JK

[bbspdstr]

Joris, Trevor's part worked fine on this illustrated early Cab.
A friend who is doing a T-0 Speedster found a NOS A nose (for $11K) and still had to move the horn openings up to T-0 height but deemed that better than Trevor's part, but then again that's Rick Mullin, who can make any part he needs if he can't find one that suits him.
I had to do the typical minor "tweaking" of Trevor's panel, but it was a good fit overall.
I just put a Porsche-supplied A front panel on a T-1 Speedster GS and the gasket land was too narrow and the gutter area was too different from that of the original fenders, so I used that area/piece from Trevor to solve that problem, but of course the total cost was higher than it should have been.
Edit: Thanks for the recommendation to check the Reutter records. Who do I approach since my main source unfortunately passed away recently?
Edit #2: I have a C-2 here that has it's original radio (including the chassis number of that radio) shown in Steve's book "Carrera."
Hope this helps and best regards,
Bruce

[JTR70]

WOW, that is one beautiful section of wood. I can certianly appreciate all the hours that went into not only profiling that thing but all the time in development to get it right. He is truely an artist. Thanks for posting it up Bruce!

2/4/17

Left fender fitment

Gap is giving a little trouble. I get a nice distance at the back corner and toward the front but most of the middle run is too tight.

If I try to get the middle spaced out where I need this corner goes completely to hell. I will most likely end up cutting and splicing the middle to suit to correct it.

Anyway its close enough for now so I turned my attention to this rear shortfall and contour problem.

The ruler laying on top highlights this nasty subduction zone. Cowl is tapering to quick and so is the end of the fender creating a bowl instead of a nice level transition like I need. Always something!

For the filler section I'm using the back of this OG fender.

Its perfect as it already carries the profile I need.

Rough fitment begins. had to add in that relief cut along the edge to allow the cowls profile to come upward.

Quick mock up with the fender. It improved but I still have quite aways yet to to go.
More later...
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[Carrera_The_Kid]

Hey Justin,

I admire your patience. You are really making sure everything fits and looks the way it is supposed to. S many people out there would have just said it is close enough.

@Bruce, I would reach out to Dieter Landenberger at the archives. The archives cn be funny sometimes thy come through and in other instances they don't. You might also want to reach out to Mike Doyle.

Thanks for the intell. on the factory and Trevor noses. We will be getting a nose from Trevor and understand it will need massaging to make it ft. I am sure Jon B. will be up to the job. Excited having him do the car.

Anybody out there happen to have a NOS A cowl gathering dust?

[Don C]

I believe Mike Doyle recently passed on.

[bbspdstr]

Don,
There were two Michael Doyles. The 356er in both NM and Annapolis, MD (the Michael Doyle state of Maryland) passed on, the 4-cam expert lives on.

A wealth of information is that Michael Doyle! The other had a few 356s in two places in the US and I'd like to have his Speedster with Rudge wheels!

That same confusion became an issue for both Steve Heinrichs and me when I was involved with a 4-cam for a neighbor of MD in MD and hearing of that passing and Steve being close to the other MD and thinking it may be the same.

Joris, thanks for the lead. No, sorry, I am almost out of NOS body parts and have no cowls left. I have been restoring really special 356s that are from 'the bottom of the barrel' and in need of everything, so usually the NOS goes to them first and all I had is assigned to those projects now. If they weren't rusty, they were hard hits...and most have been damaged by both. Good luck in your quest! I just found more very local (and resting quietly) which I am buying just for such projects. It's good it's still out there, almost a shame those who still have it are aware of its value. No longer any 'deals' where I can mark it up even a little!

Bruce

[Don C]

Bruce,
I had the name wrong, it was Bill Doyle who passed on.
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43278
DC

[JTR70]

Thanks Joris! Just doing the best that I can to reduce the amount lead or filler that will be required.

2/8/17
Left Fender continued

Exploring my options with panel tension to see where and how I might be able to manipulate that low area. As I pull the bottom out it seems to calm that transition quite a bit. It of course can't be mounted this way but I'm just figuring out what I can do to avoid any serious relief cutting.

Cutting the fender edge off straight next for a clean joint with the new filler section.

trimmed and new section carefully tacked onto the cowl.

Its still fighting me and the cowls approach angle still needs to level upward a touch more.

What's also working against me is that I've noticed this new fender arches just a little more than stock. Its peaks a little stronger at the center (green arrow) then tapers and slopes more toward the back compounding the approach angle problem I'm already having with the cowl.

This original sweeps too but its much more level especially as it makes its way toward the cowl.

I'll eventually get this section to transition smoother but I'm desperately trying to avoid relief cuts in that fender.

Chased it about as far as i could for now. I want to get the rest of the fender fitting closer before I commit any further in this area.

Excess trimming around the edges would be next. Made a paper templated based off the edge of the door to get my initial trim line for this back edge.

Another section was trimmed off the front edge next. So relieved to see that these two panel profiles matching up well within striking distance.

Bottom corner at the rocker was last to be taken up. Rear edge trimmed with enough excess to form the eventual flange.


With all the trouble I'm having I do have a few slivers of sunshine. Could not have asked for better alignment at the wired edge where these two meet.

I'm also really happy with the general side profile shape of the fender as it continues off of the door.

The side profile sits flat with no real crown in and around the fenders arch; just like it should. While I do like some crown and muscle at the rear arches I can't stand it on the fronts. Those have to be perfectly stock with no flare or "pulled out" profile as I've seen on a few finished 356's.

So its a mixed bag of fitment issues with all of my serious troubles being at the top of this fender with the hood gap and at the cowl joint. Other than that its very promising down along the side.

With the fender getting closer it was now time to tie up some more loose ends that I just could not bring myself to finish until absolutely necessary. Finishing up the splash pan next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

2/9/17

left splash pan loose ends

From the start the flanged edge of this panel has not been quite the right shape or distance that I've needed for this application. Began by replacing and shaping a new lower corner when I mounted the rocker but never finished the next section above it.

Thought I could leave this remaining section alone but determined it to be just a touch shy. Once I have the flange just below level of the door the approach angle is too steep for the eventual skin flange to hang onto properly. The flange surface needs to come out just a bit more to run more parralel with the door.

tin snipped this section free and now spaced out where I need it.

Strip of 20 guage represents the eventual skin. Flange still tapers away though not as sharply as before and matches what I'm finding under my referrence car.

Tacked in new position with a quick filler sliver.

this spot welded overlap relief is not supposed to be there so the excess was trimmed and will be butt-welded bak together.

Replacement middle section fabricated and tacked into final position.

Flange fully welded and dressed.

Door remounted for a test.

Flange hangs just below door and well within striking distance for any needed slight height adjustments as the fenders edge is heeled over it.


Quick test fit against the fender. Close enough for now so its onto finishing out all those plug welds.

All finished smooth with spot-weld detail. Small seam weld tack detail added at the bottom inner edge as found on my original referrence car.

I went back and removed just a sliver more of the flange to ensure enough clearance for a good door gap once the edge of the fender is pinched over.

teadious but so nice to have this panel finally finished out. Back to fitting the fender.
Thanks for stopping by!
Justin