Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Experience told you to keep putting it together and then taking it apart to tweak it to get where you needed it. I guess its so easy to think that looks more or less right and start welding up. What an exercise in patience!! Tell me, it seems the panels from Trevor are working out so much better than the cowl ones Trevor was not involved with!!

Your comment to Mark was really correct regarding colour when using the oxy-acetylene torch. Once that orange colour comes up the sheet steel goes easily wherever you need it. I found the forming in the end so good to blend to the existing. But the panel needs to be securely tacked around the form before, that last area that needs to be formed by heat and blended to the existing surface.

I suppose really the proper way to repair is the way you do it Justin, the welds can be dressed so the repair is hard to spot. My way 30 or 40 years ago worked, but often there was overlap onto strong existing sheet steel. That overlap although strong showed in the finish work. I did depress the overlap on occasion and filled. But its then a strong bodge that passed maybe 38 government tests over these past years by the man with his special tools to find the rust holes.

Now would you believe in the UK any car built before 1960 does now not need a yearly MOT ( Ministry test ) I just don't understand that
decision.

Roy

[merbesfield]

Hey Mark,

If you take a look here: http://www.abcgt.com/forum/14-356-Restoration-Projects/4902-Coupe-N2-Speedster-Project.html?limit=6&start=210

I was right in the middle of fitting that area your talking about. Once I had the floor positioned where I needed it to be first, it was then just a matter of give and take on both the flange profile and the floor to meet tightly somewhere in the middle. I used an Oxy/Acetylene torch to heat the areas to a nice orange glow then hammered them to stretch the corners of the floor and also to Shrink the corners of the bulkhead flange. Hope this helps! BTW: The pages just before the link describes arriving at the final floor position if you had any concerns with that? Let us know how you're getting on with it.
Justin

Justin, this is perfect. I have saved all your pics for reference. Nice to see I am doing exactly what you did. I had a pretty good starting point as my pan was not toast. Just a little too holey. Thanks for the tip on Oxy/Acetylene. I feel good and think if I can keep up the steady work, this thing will be in soon. Thanks for the help. Mark

[merbesfield]

One more question. I don't remember, does the joint between floor halves get seam welded? Inside and out? Thanks Mark

[neilb]

Now would you believe in the UK any car built before 1960 does now not need a yearly MOT ( Ministry test ) I just don't understand that
decision.

Roy

that's great news! you can buy a brand new car here in oz keep it keep it 25 years and never have a yearly test done (MOT). how cool is that!...

personally having come from the uk, i rather like the yearly (MOT) test done, it helps keep your car in working order rather than the crap i see on a regular basis that should be scrapped...


your doing a fine job Justin! on this and the coupe! great to see them both in paint...

[JTR70]

Thanks again Roy! Yes, so far so good with Trevor's panels. We'll if that remains true here shortly when the quarter panels and tail skin arrive.

Mark,

They are spot and/or plug welded on both sides.

This lap joint was also seam welded along inner lateral sections up against the wall. You can see the original welds here on my coupe floor.

Thank you Neil, I really appreciate it!!

9/24/15
Inner closing panel set.

With the cowl measuring out even I could begin attaching this new panel to the lateral sections to tie them all together cementing their positions.

removed the cowl again to begin welding this panel to the firewall flange.

Bruce, if you're reading this, I know you have that original Speedster decowled at the moment can you take a photo of this area topside; specifically at the fire wall so I can see what the original joint looks like?
If you have a moment, Thanks!

Plug welding begins.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[merbesfield]

Thanks for reminding me about that seam weld on the inside where they lapped over one another. That thing was a bear to cut through. I also forgot about the simple fact that I could actually look at the joint in question on my old pan as it is sitting right next to me on the floor. Doh

[DG58INNM]

Justin,
I've noticed for many years your photos of gas welds on your '57 coupe. Very interesting. Although the fit and finish on my '58 is very good, much better than on my '64, it does not have many of these little finishing touches. For example, I'm pretty sure (memory, it was quite a few years back) there was no gas weld at the floor transverse tunnel end/ inner long. joint, just the normal spot welds. Either a T1/T2 transition thing, or more likely a Carrera/non Carrera thing. Just a thought, but I think a lot of what you see on your car is the result of the extra attention to details that carreras got during their construction.

Great to see you getting so close to paint. Can't imagine how much fun you are about to have putting this car back together. talk about extra detail! If carreras got that much more attention than "regular" 356's, look much more attention has yours gotten compared to all the "regular" Carreras out there!

DG

[JTR70]

Hey David,

Technically all '56 and '57 T1 bodies were being built as "Carreras" so there is nothing unique about my cars construction. It was just pulled off the assembly line and fitted with that specific drivetrain. It wasn't until about 1958 that Carrera specific chassis were being built uniquely from the push-rod brethren. Brackets, holes and the like for the 4-cam engine. So any difference you're seeing is more than likely just a T1 to T2 transition.
Yes, I am getting very excited about the prospect of the assembly stage. Its all instant gratification from there on in. Thanks David, I appreciate that!

I got a very nice gift from my good friend Per Johansson this afternoon, all the way from Sweden!

A metric version tape. He was kidding me earlier on this thread about using a standard tape to build Porsches so while he was at the Hardware store he felt very compelled to upgrade me. Thanks a lot for this nice gift Per I will use it regularly and with pride!

BTW: some time back I received a package from the UK from my buddy Steve Masefield and in it was this nice stainless standard/metric ruler with helpful conversion table on the reverse. It has come in quite handy as well so my thanks again to Steve! I must really be driving all the European guys crazy with my standard measurements and didn't realize it. My thanks again to you guys for not only these nice gestures but for being part of this site. I am very blessed to have such a great group of fellow enthusiasts here!!!
Justin

[neilb]

i like how you call imperial measurements 'standard' everyone else uses metric wouldn't that be standard?

just yanking your chain Justin... i always buy tape measures with metric/imperial as i use both

[JTR70]

Ha! Well its called standard here in the U.S. by us Yanks.

9/28/15
Engine compartment forward closing panels.
Now with the cockpit substructure getting close it's time to begin fitting the rearward sections.

Decklid remounted and profile set to continue the line off of the cowl to begin fitting the new corner pieces.

As you can see I have an elevation issue with the hinged lid. I could weld up and redrill the hinge holes lower to level it but...

An easier approach is cut and take a few mm's out of the lids hinge mount where I'm pointing at. I made this exact adjustment on a spare lid I had for a coupe a few years ago. Fortunately as luck would have it I was talking with Rusty Tubs about this and it turns out he sent me the wrong speedster lid for this project. This is actually your lid Drew so thankfully this mistake was caught before I cut on it. Will be sending it out to you shortly.

In the mean time I could still get this closing panel within striking distance with what I have.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[Drew.s]

Hi Justin
Sorry to hear you got the wrong lid from Ric (My lid ) hope it hasn't messed up that beautiful back end.
Regards
Drew

[JTR70]

No worries Drew.

Wow, its already been 6 weeks since my last entry, how time gets away. Getting my coupe into final paint and also waiting on my next order of panels from Trevor Marshall side tracked the progress for a bit but I just took delivery the new closing rear wall from him so progress can begin in earnest once again. I've had the forward closing walls of the engine compartment mocked up for over a month now but they didn't excite me enough to post about them but with the new wall here I'm ready to share it so there are no gaps in this story.
From last month: 10/15

Slowly working my to finding the best average adjusted fit.

Initial trimming and adjustment was making sure that panels flange carried the line from the cowl.

By this shot the flange is running near parallel with the edge of the lid. Almost ready for a few set screws.


The next concern was making sure I had enough relief height for the eventual fender closing flange that will mate to this panel.

The NOS Speedster fender was showing about 10mm in relief height needed.

there is almost double that distance here. Since I don't know what trevor's flanges will be I thought it best to leave myself more wiggle room. Again nothing set in stone yet, this is all just some place to begin. The picture will come into better focus as it progresses.

Set screwed into initial position.

As I found on my buddies original Speedster this panel mounts under the forward section which is why I had to leave this area loose some time back.

right side also now mounted.

Small step but it was the beginnings of an engine compartment.

To go any further I'm in need of the rear closing bulkhead. I had one, sort of, but this next needed panel triggered a new order from Trevor and this last delay in progress. Will post that story tomorrow.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

Cutting our loses on the last of the pre-ordered Hogue panels.

This is the rear bulkhead wall that was supplied to me from Steve Hogue. Its not exactly a T1 version as it has a hastily formed embossment for the later optional gas heater for late T1/T2. At first I thought no big deal I'll just heat shrink that back out.

But as you can see its also a little short on the corners.

The upper mount channel came unattached as well. No big deal and I might prefer that so I can position to suit. The point is that it just added more work and time to the finished panel.

Both my coupe and my parts book confirmed that this panel is not quite complete.

After conferring with the owner it was decided that we were best off to cut our losses and order one from Trevor Marshall. Though this panel was north of $500 we both could not justify the work that it would take to complete it and make it fit. New Panel from Trevor up next.
Thanks! Justin

[JOP]

"the rear bulkhead wall that was supplied to me from Steve Hogue"

Did you order that version or it was just supplied since it was "on the shelf"?

I do know that you can manufacture a bad piece but heay admit a fault and replace it with a new one would be the commen way of doing business ......

But good that you could source a new part elsewhere......
There are today many more talanted guys doing replacement parts for our 356 even if they are just doing limited editions of what you need.

Keep showing us how to build your own Speedster

JOP

[John Pierce]

Trevor's rear bulkhead looks complete on his website. I can't wait to see how it actually fits I think it was a good idea to start fresh with what is needed.

JP