Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[bbspdstr]

The new owner of my last Speedster, expressing his claustrophobia with his first experience with the top up and sidecurtains on. His first and (says he) the last time such will happen.

[roy mawbey]

Bruce,

Great photo, looked twice before I saw the face inside!!!

Nice car too!

Roy

[JTR70]

Whewee, is that area Narly Bruce. LOL, like I've said before I'm just one of those weird guys that likes the speedster with the top up. Your picture just points that out.

8/30/15
Lateral top frame mounts.
This entry is well over a week old so I need to get this caught up.
Though I don't have the quarter panels yet I still needed to move forward on getting the top frame mounted and set.

What I did have on hand was an old flange perimeter I got from Trevor M. about 15 years ago for my project. I only need the sides as the new cowl already posses the center section. The draw back is they are cut short a few inches on the tips but its a straight forward bend and is easily replaced. The tricky area is the compound curve as it makes the turn but that is intact. (left corner section not pictured here)

The missing sections are here still mounted on my car.

After measuring them and comparing with the original quarter panel new sections were flange lipped and added onto the old corners. Test fitting to the car here.

A lot all going on at once here. Locating the top mount for proper height and lateral orientation all the while adjusting the flange plate for alignment with closing panel and trying for parallel contour with the base bow shape as it makes the turn. It took some doing and it fought of course but it eventually gave me what I wanted in the way of my best average fit across the board.

I was finally comfortable enough to tack the mount into position. A spacer plate up top was added to allow the eventual fender flange to slide in behind there like its suppose to when the time comes.

Reinstalled in prep for the right side.

Repeat right side...

I laid the cowl in there just to see and it was really exciting to see this area coming more into focus.

Direct comparison with the real thing.

Close enough for Gov't work.

Lateral top frame mounts set.
Thanks for looking and will update more tomorrow.
Justin

BTW: Drew, here are those scale photos you asked for. Sorry it took so long.

[JTR70]

8/30/15

Begin fitting rear cowl and back top frame mounts.

With the forward top frame mounts and side channels pieces all but set I was ready to begin fitting the rear cowl from these established landmarks.

Centering the panel and finding the best average contoured fit off the channel flange and rear base bow was next.

Became quickly apparent that the best way to both locate and help hold the cowl in position would be to add in the rear top frame mounts.

Rears couldn't be simpler, just a thread plate mounted in reverse.

Fortunately I had those on hand.

Locating these for height and correct orientation next.


Once synched tight against the wall things were looking up almost immediately.

After a few minor tweaks the bow orientation and profile with the lip of the panel was almost exactly were I needed it.

A few minor adjustment and some double checking yet but these new mounts were nearly ready for their first tack-weld.

before the session was over I began operating the frame up and down to check for approach alignment to the Windshield frame.

Also with the side closing panels in the folded position. All so far so good. Don't have the catch hooks fabricated yet so my hammer held the top in position for the photo.

Top up w/cover and looking more speedsterish by the day.

Adjustments for height and panel levelness yet to come but its at least headed in the right direction.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Good thinking Justin with fitting those rear frame mounting plates. So good you have the nice hood frame. Imagine doing that job without the possiblity of raising and lowering a frame. Talk about measure twice and cut once, here you have to think forward three steps before welding anything.

Looking very nice! You cannot rush any of these jobs for sure.

Roy

[Drew.s]

Thanks Justin for the measurements.
It's looking very Speedsterish.
Do you still have my email address?
Regards
Drew

[JTR70]

Thank you Roy! Yes, all these original speedster components are doubling as locating and sometimes holding Jigs. For sure a lot of mock up prep, planning and replanning as it goes. No short-cuts, at least not for me; I have to slowly wade through it.
Thanks Drew, I'll shoot you an email here shortly.
Justin

9/4/15
Rear cowl fitment continued.
This is about a week behind so still trying to catch this up.

With the forward profile of the cowl basically set to the profile of the top frame bow, the cowl was giving me the sense that it might be a little short. I was thinking oh god not another repeat of the front cowl.

I could force the firewall into near alignment at the trough but as I did this it raised the back lip of the cowl. I was at a standstill at this point because I just could not confirm this to be right or not.

A trip over to see my buddy's car for measurements and direct comparison was required. I was pleasantly surprised to find the cowl very close in accuracy to the original.

After some sight mark measurements and confirmation of this panels accuracy I was now confident to move forward with it.

Based on this measurement of the trough width.

I trimmed away the excess to closely match.

Some shaping to get the firewall flange and cowl corner to match on this side.

Left side contoured out much better. That's been a constant with this conversion as one side seems to almost fall into place while the opposite side is a bit of a mess.

Clamped into approximate position after trimming and confirmation with the original car. It was very close with the general rake or slopped profile of the cowl matching pretty close the original.

Here is a shot I took of this vantage point just so I could be sure. The following measurements helped to confirm this.


From the bottom flange to the parcel shelf at center is approx. 14 1/4(+or-)

The top of the cross-member to the center of the trough flange is approx. 12 inches (+or-) at center in the engine compartment.

The cowl at this point is within a few mm's of these dimensions at the same locations. It was a good start and was so rewarding to have the cowl and firewall slowly becoming one to seal out the engine compartment. More later, Thanks for stopping by!
Justin

[JOP]

Justin, it about time to retire your old "Stanley" it looks kind of worn out.....
And Porsche did not build their 356 in inches

You are lucky to have a real " mockup"
Good tutorial of building your own tub.

[JTR70]

Sure they did Per, you saw that original speedster measuring out nicely in inches. I guess I could convert my findings to MM's to make you guys feel better. Justin

9/5/15

Initial decklid mock up with established cowl.

First test fit with lid to see what's what.

basic bodyline profile looks pretty close and carries a smooth transition from the cowl to the lid. Pretty much the same thing I had to do with the trunk and dash cowl up front.

Overall lateral profile of the lid and cowl are also close.

Trevor Marshall makes a very nice speedster rear cowl.


Added the top to help build the illusion.

It was a good start, more to come. Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

9/9/15
Rear speedster top frame mounts set as cowl fitment continues.

comfortable enough to tack the rear thread plates into position to secure the base bow.

Consistent enough spacing and contour with the edge of the new cowl.

Added confirmation that its close came with the fitment of this original center upholstery strip. Holes lined up with good fitment to Trevor's Cowl.

I have all three original sections that comprise this upholstered rear strip. Though not an exact fit they do offer just a bit more confirmation that this thing is still on the right track.

Cowl set screwed onto the firewall and the top frame now completely bolted in. Things were really beginning to firm up back here at this point.

Added this original fender back on for more cross checking.

relieved to see the lid opening flanges lining up.

good basic profile transition from fender to cowl.

This was one of those rare sessions where you feel like you might be winning a little. Lots more to do yet like leveling the corners of the cowl at each corner but it was still a rewarding day. Fine tuning the cowl for levelness next. Thanks for stopping by!
Justin

[JTR70]

9/15/15
Begin connecting new cowl with the lateral base flange runs. (about a week ago)

Right side flange run and profile were a natural with the cowl and almost fell into place. The corner of the cowl at the weld joint turns up a touch and will need to be relaxed a bit but nothing serious.

The left side corner by contrast turns upward a lot sooner and farther making the two flanges badly misalign.

As you can see from the outside the skin is also encroaching into the base bow and will need to be relaxed to the follow the contour of the bow like the rest of the cowl does. Again nothing serious especially compared to what I went through with that dash.

After a few relief cuts this corner began to shape up.

A lot tightening and fine tuning but it was a good overall profile shape.

removed the frame and installed my original trim sections to see just how close the profile shape was.

I was relieved to see that.

enclosed "speedster" cockpit slowly materializing.

Fun while it lasted but now onto the next deal...

Begin paper template for cowl inner closing wall.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[John Pierce]

Justin,

I've gained a lot of insight watching you wrestle these ill-fitting parts into position. It's given me the courage to plow forward on my car when the parts I buy don't fit as well as they should/could. Thank you for sharing this. I know it's been frustrating on your part, but your car is looking great.


JP

[JTR70]

So glad to read that John, Thank you! Through this, I too have learned not to be intimidated or frozen in fear while dealing with a new panel that just isn't going fall into place. Some time back I was quite hesitant to cut, heat or beat on a new part but its now a realization that it is just standard procedure with these cars. Thanks again, you're doing an amazing job with your coupe!

9/21/15
New inner panel and more fine adjustments

Ready to move onto metal. My last section of sheet steel which was just big enough to cut this piece from.

basic position and adding some screws in at the firewall working from the center outward.

Started out very promising as it took a nice natural arc.

Began adding the top layers back on too see how they fit.

It was really nice look up into these corners and see them closed off.

Double checked with the top frame for contour and levelness from side to side with my sight markers. I had a suspicion that the right side was just a little low as I had to hold tension there with a bottle-jack as I worked on it earlier. It soon became apparent that I wasn't going to be able to stretch or cheat it out.

reluctantly I pulled it all apart (again) to relax the flange and bring up the bend just shy of a 1/4 inch.

Actually the whole flange did not need moving as the forward section up by the forward top frame mounts was fine.

Flange refolded and assembled again for another measurement to see how close.

Slowly eliminating the kinks with each try.

After all that it was still a touch low on this side but this time I was able to stretch it.

The left side as been consistently reading 13 1/4 at center of the nut plate.

flange at center reads 14 1/4 which is just what my buddy's original speedster was measuring here.

At last got this right side up level with the left without a bottle jack or external tension. +or- Well within the limits considering all the slight variables.

Another full mock up for more reference so I could begin tacking this section on the firewall with confidence. Thanks for looking! Justin

[merbesfield]

Justin, I have been playing w some torch heat to manipulate some parts I am about to install on the foward pan portion of my 57. Can you give us a quick blurb of how you do it? What you use, how hot, etc. This is something I have little experience with. Do you use the Oxy Acetylene torch? One or the other only?

[JTR70]

Hey Mark,

If you take a look here: http://www.abcgt.com/forum/14-356-Restoration-Projects/4902-Coupe-N2-Speedster-Project.html?limit=6&start=210

I was right in the middle of fitting that area your talking about. Once I had the floor positioned where I needed it to be first, it was then just a matter of give and take on both the flange profile and the floor to meet tightly somewhere in the middle. I used an Oxy/Acetylene torch to heat the areas to a nice orange glow then hammered them to stretch the corners of the floor and also to Shrink the corners of the bulkhead flange. Hope this helps! BTW: The pages just before the link describes arriving at the final floor position if you had any concerns with that? Let us know how you're getting on with it.
Justin