Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[JTR70]

Hey Per,

It was supplied to me with a group of other parts by the owner of this car through Rusty Tubs. It's not really my deal directly so I'll just send that old piece with the car on the day it leaves.

I could not agree more John and yes it is just like the one Trevor displays in his catalog; A complete unit

Correct smooth version T1 even with the 4-cam oil filter mount plate; a nice detail!





Very securely packed and insulated for the trip across the country.

This will save many hours of time which would have otherwise been required.

Will it need trimming, nipping and tucking to work...

Absolutely, I'm already in process of that

But this was a much better place to start. Will share that next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[John Pierce]

A MUCH nicer piece, Vegas Justin! The original piece didn't have the correct curve either. A complete panel was definitely needed.


JP

[Jack Staggs]

Justin, couldn't you fill those existing gaps from the original panel with a little weld?

[JTR70]

Yeah John, I think Trevor wanted to be sure he didn't send it off to that other Justin. This was definitely the way to go.

I could have bridged that with enough wire Jack.

Test fitting to a latched lid:

One of my spare mechanisms bolted right on, a good sign.

Lid latched in for the first time with really nice fit.

Flange profile runs pretty consistent with the shape of the lid so definitely for open car 356.


Very promising, time to try it for the first on the car.

Initial relaxed fitment with lid hinge mounted and latched to the wall.

At first glance it seems like its just going to fall into place perfectly.

But as I begin trying to line the cross member flange up with this new wall the first issue cropped up. In this relaxed position the wall flange over shoots the cross member by a good 2 inches.

With the wall flange lined up with the cross member flange like it needs to be...

The lid and latch tang now overshoot the wall about the equal distance as the lower flange did before I adjusted it.

To get them to come close to lining up again the sides have to take this steep almost coupe like profile. If I pushed the sides down where they need to be the opening closes up even worse. Though this is a really nice piece some Nipping and tucking required.

Unlike the other wall Trevor gave more than enough length along the sides in fact they are quite long. I needed to trim them back out of my way so I could get a better handle on what exactly needs to be done but how much and at what angle for a Speedster? A trip over to see my reference car was next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

12/1/15

Rear wall fitment continued.
Before I could go forward confidently I had to have another look at my reference speedster.

Though badly rust in this area there was enough left to get measurements and other details confirmed

Measuring from the firewall I was able to locate where the lap joint begins. It does not run vertical either so a measurement of top and bottom from the wall helped me determine the approach angle. It also told me that the rear wall lap joints to the inside of the forward closing wall and that the lap itself is about 2 inches in width.

My trip over there also confirmed that the rear wall sits almost vertical so this swoopy relaxed profile I have now is not right.

To bring the wall both in line with the cross member and at the proper approach angle required my first relief cuts. Its such nice piece that I hated the idea of cutting on it but cutting through Trevor's existing welds allowed the movement I needed to get a bit closer.

With the wall flange now set screwed in my best adjusted position I went ahead and marked the cut lines from the firewall based on the one's I took from that original Speedster.

Bulk head cut to final length. You can see that Trevor gave me more than enough extra. I'll more than likely use the flange sections on the forward walls as they were formed a bit shallow in that area.

Cutting that excess off relieved a lot of the initial issues I was having with it.

Its a start. Again I'd be hurting without that original car to copy from.

More tomorrow. Thanks for looking! Justin

[JTR70]

12/12/15

Refitting forward engine compartment panels

With the rear bulkhead now pretty much set in its final adjusted position it was to reinstall the previously established forward closing panels so I could begin fitting and joining them to the rear wall.

As you can see there is quite the discrepancy at the upper mount flange. Par for the course and all part of fitting and focusing this "picture" one aspect at a time.

Spent some time under here too planning and making sure I had my best adjusted fit with the flanges against the latched lid. It took me a while to get my head around all of this so I was at a comfortable enough point to commit to a final position.

What paralyzed my progress for a spell was the variables surround the latched lid. The flanges now don't quite follow the contour of the lid as perfectly as they should. Also I don't know the exact distance away from the lids edge that the flanges need to be at to compensate for the step flange Trevor will have in his new panels. I need them here to determine that. So my best plan of attack here was to not worry too much about the flanges for now and to just set and weld up the rest of the closing panels then go back and add in the flanges to suit. I added the relief cut so I could draw the rest of panel in tight.

Once I screwed it all down snug it immediately starting taking shape and eased a lot of anxiety.

Again the flanges are a mess for now but the lower closing panels are getting established and set. The contour from the cowl onto the latched lid is still in the sweet spot meaning that the rear bulkhead is officially "there".

Other issues of course. The rear wall came a bit too short on both sides so a flange sections will need to be grafted on.

Left side set and prepping the right panel. Lid operation got smoother and cleaner as worked progressed.

right side also relief cut and synched down into position.


Both side walls were contouring out nice with the bulkhead once screwed down snug.

Can't believe this car has an engine compartment.


Overview

Now that the closing panels are set the lid and cowl were removed so basic welding could start.

Rear speedster substructer

Begin welding it up next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

12/13/15

Begin welding substructure.


Broke the back of it down one more to so I could begin welding from the center of the firewall area outward with less obstruction. (beginning at the hinge bosses)

The panels also needed to come off so I could hole punch prep each part for plug-welding.

Firewall cap hole prepped and remounted for final welding. Attaching it to the tops of the hinge boss flanges here first. The hinges where fully bolted and snugged to double as holding jigs while the bosses where attached to the cap. Last thing I needed was hinge fitment problems after welding. More than likely would have happened otherwise.

Once attached to the bosses I rolled the car over to begin welding up the lateral flange from the center outward. Again such a luxury to be able to this thing over as I was able to comfortably weld this run up from a seated position shielded from sparks and slag.

Left forward section was next. Decision time and how to best clean up and terminate that excess on this upper corner. Its too high and deep to be seen on my original reference Speedster so I took my best guess.

Trimmed it to overlap the corner then heeled it over and secured it with a series of plug-welds. This way the joint will be undetectable once the quarter panel goes on.

Had to add two through bolts at the center junction there to firmly draw up 4 layers of sheet metal tightly.

It was slowly happening.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

12/14/15

Finishing out left side

As the welding progressed the rear Bulkhead was added back in and the decklid was mount just to make sure it wasn't changing shape on me as I welded.

Right side forward section now in for good and ready to weld.

So far so good as everything seemed in the same position as before.

Took a small break from plug-welding to add a flange section here.

paper template to copy that swoopy cut profile and to get the bend in the right spot.

Final steel part in position and ready to weld.


Section welded just short of the corner as I'll have to do a little planning there as to how I'll finish it so it looks original. Plug welding also finished as far as I can go for now.

Left the upper flap of that joint loose for now until I get the flange mount settled.

All welds finished smooth.

All these small, rough, potato chip shaped panels are finally amounting to something useful. I had my doubts in the beginning.

Decided to finish off most of this run in spot weld detail just to get some of it in the absolute "done" column.

Ran a small seam weld across the lower flange lip above the shock mount as originally done.



Finishing out the right side to match coming up next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[John Pierce]

Looking great, Justin. Did you use the trusty Lenco to put those spot welds in? They look nice and round with no burn through. What settings did you use?


JP

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Great work, great presentation of it as well. I can see even with the skill you now have, the requirement of an original to measure is essential. I can see as well the absolute need to be 3 steps ahead of yourself before welding any part.

These points and methods you adopt must surely be so important to Trevor as he needs photos and methods to attach to any orders he receives from future customers who are not skilled metal workers.
I think it might be beyond the skill though of many normal DIY guys.

I seem to get the notion Trevor is a guy who takes all that on board unlike the the person who supplied those other parts for your 356A.

This work is really not easy, just how long to even document the progress must hours of your time.

When I next peer up the rear section of my car I will take into account the design time Porsche took as well as the tooling design and cost.

Well done!

Roy

[JTR70]

Thanks John, yes, of course, it was the old Lenco to the rescue.

I've got it set at almost the max duration to give it enough of chance to "crater" each spot enough to my liking. Every so often I'll get a blow out spot where there was a slight gap between the two panels. Its frustrating PIA, the remains stick the electrode and have to be ground off and the resulting blowout hole in the top panel has to be plug welded. fortunately that doesn't happen too often.

"These points and methods you adopt must surely be so important to Trevor as he needs photos and methods to attach to any orders he receives from future customers who are not skilled metal workers.
I think it might be beyond the skill though of many normal DIY guys."

Thank you very much Roy and thanks also for the appreciation of what actually goes into all of this. I would have to guess in all reality that it doesn't much matter to these vendors who produce these parts. They simply offer you their interpretation of a given component or panel and then it is entirely your responsibility to you make it work, fit or look right. Weather its fabricated correctly or not any complaints will most likely fall on deaf ears and will be written off as being from just another hack who has no idea about what they are doing or have gotten themselves into. I actually resemble that description so I took no offense. Not saying this is always the case but just my personal experience so far.
Thanks again you guys, always appreciated!!
Justin

12/24/15
Just quick update. Not much progress this past week between the holidays and fighting a bad cold. Back on it in earnest next week.

New flange extension for the right side.

Prepped and ready to weld

Stitching it in.
Thanks for looking and Merry Christmas to all!
Justin

[bbspdstr]

Justin,

Great work, great presentation of it as well. I can see even with the skill you now have, the requirement of an original to measure is essential. I can see as well the absolute need to be 3 steps ahead of yourself before welding any part.

Amen! x2! me too! etc, etc.

These points and methods you adopt must surely be so important to Trevor as he needs photos and methods to attach to any orders he receives from future customers who are not skilled metal workers.
I think it might be beyond the skill though of many normal DIY guys.

It is beyond the skill or caring of most "Professional" bodymen these days! Few are qualified or interested in being taught such skills. Justin is unique in that he both teaches and learns from his site.

I seem to get the notion Trevor is a guy who takes all that on board unlike the the person who supplied those other parts for your 356A.

Trevor Marshall is a great resource for those keyed into the 356. There are others who are not production oriented who have tried Trevor's panels and put them aside to make their own as needed. A true "panelbeater" is a rare person to be found now.

This work is really not easy, just how long to even document the progress must hours of your time.

Ask Phil......
My theory is that documenting hours spent on a project is like scratching the days on the wall as they go by while you are in a dungeon. The sooner a task is done correctly, the sooner your release. There is no comfy padded room until you finish even if you want to beat your head against a wall. I should know..... after 50 years.

When I next peer up the rear section of my car I will take into account the design time Porsche took as well as the tooling design and cost.

Well done!
Roy

Roy, you are a sage. Thanks for your observations.
-Bruce

[DG58INNM]

Looks fantastic, as usual Justin. An amazing project!
DG

[Trevor]

Interesting and appreciated comments Roy and Bruce. Being that "other" Trevor that has to make some of his own panels I now find it comical when I go to rust repair a section on a car and tell Jack, "oh good they make that piece stamped", only so he can give me that "you're joking right Trevor" look and tell me we're not buying it, it won't fit right, you're going to make it

[bbspdstr]

Are there now interchangeable Trevors? Whoever did that piece, whether Gates or Marshall, it looks good and if it looks good, the only thing that can make a difference is who has the pride of craftsmanship in that one part. Whether sheet metal parts are won or bought or made, the more you make or more of those others you make better, the higher the pride factor can be when the car is finished. Pay attention to Jack's "looks." He knows his .......356 stuff and clientele.

BTW, I have not had the ability to do the strut repair that way, those I have done were complete replacements, inside and out.

-Bruce Baker.....(not to be confused with Bruce Schwartz, who now owns the company the other Trevor used to work for when owned by Chuck)