Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[JOP]

These photos were taken for me a couple years back when I needed some arches but I needed a litle more than the 90 mm so I could not use Ritchies parts.

It is worth sending a email to KK IF you looking for something special....they might have it or good leads on getting it somewhere around the globe.

[bbspdstr]

Speaking of curved parts, the side curtains for the new top on 84255 didn't fit well, too much gap at the rear arch where the low curve of the side curtain didn't meet the higher curve of the new high bow top.

I called Autos and spoke with Agustin and asked if there were different side curtains for a low bow and a high bow, as I never noticed that between tops, but who the heck uses those awful things anyway? (I did, in the winter when a Speedster was my only car...and they sucked!) and the Factory books, the Brett Johnson books all are less than complete with photos or facts.

Augustine said that he was unaware of a difference, so I took some of the A.I. versions apart and old originals apart to compare frames. Hah, there's what I need! Here we go again with 'custom' for something that sucks at best when new, trying to make that fit better even if they are never used.

At least the owner of my old Speedster DOES drive the car regularly and in a 'spirited' manner.

[JTR70]

Thanks for the link Roy! KK carries a lot cool items including a spot-on RSK steering wheel I lusted after for a bit. Actually the price on his door tops is still not too out of line. Speedster door tops are among the hardest items to come by. A lot of them just rotted away. Even 14 years ago as I was trying to locate original parts, the door tops were the toughest to find; and so was the lower speedster windshield frame.
Thanks PW (JOP) that is a nice looking rolled repair section. Too bad they didn't give you enough meat.

While coupe and speedster door tops are similar in shape they really are different animals The speedster has much bigger radius profile.

While you might be able to add metal to a coupe garnish rail it would be far easier to just begin with fresh piece of steel.

Thanks for sharing your insight concerning the windshield frames Bruce!
On those side curtains I think AI version frame was modeled after an early Low bow side curtain. It would make sense that the slope of the frame would cut a little quicker for the lower top profile.

7/9/14
Right A pillar gusset complete.

Basic shapes cut out and fine trimming and fitment next.

Welded and complete.

Moving onto the hinge boss conversion next. Thanks for looking! Justin

[Phil Planck]

Great progress and work Justin. I am embarrassed at the little time I get in on Foam Car in the summer. Being retired you would think you have plenty of time on your hands, but for most active retirees it does not work out that way. Should have my winter wood supply finished up today, so can scratch that off the list. But then there is the skeet and trap leagues I shoot in, 60 antique radios I play with, shotgun shells to reload and on and on. But then again, I did all of those when I worked - hmm?
Phil

[JTR70]

Thanks Phil! I completely understand, there is always more pressing business that can come up to sidetrack your progress. Never enough time in the day, retired or not. My coupe is a perfect example; I should have had it in final color by now.
Thanks again! Justin
7/11/14

Front hood hinge boss conversion

As mentioned a little earlier a coupe/cabriolet hood rests a little higher than a speedster in its opened locked position. Mounting hole modification is required to replicate this detail.

left hinge boss split apart to get at those reinforcement tabs.

Spot-weld drilling of course...

First tab freed and mocked up in my anticipated position: Forward anchor moves downward its "hole width".

Both halves teed up for the modification. Needed to measure my friends '57 speedster to confirm where the new hole should be first.

Measured my buddies Speedster late this afternoon and the center of the forward spur hole was just better than 2 3/4 inches to the lower edge of the housing. Example measurement above on the old coupe housing puts this "speedster" specific detail almost exactly a hole width down. Close enough for gov't work!

old plate now tacked into its new "speedster" position. Rear hinge pivot hole of course stays the same.

New hole now opened up just under the original coupe position.

The reinforcement tab also double as a great locator for the new hole.

First half dressed and complete.

Will finish up the other side tomorrow and weld this shell back together. Thanks for stopping by! Justin

[bbspdstr]

.....Actually the price on his door tops is still not too out of line. Speedster door tops are among the hardest items to come by. A lot of them just rotted away. Even 14 years ago as I was trying to locate original parts, the door tops were the toughest to find; and so was the lower speedster windshield frame.

While coupe and speedster door tops are similar in shape they really are different animals The speedster has much bigger radius profile.

While you might be able to add metal to a coupe garnish rail it would be far easier to just begin with fresh piece of steel.

Thanks for sharing your insight concerning the windshield frames Bruce!
On those side curtains I think AI version frame was modeled after an early Low bow side curtain. It would make sense that the slope of the frame would cut a little quicker for the lower top profile.
Justin

This is the new top on 84255 using Mike Robbins' original Speedster high bow frame and showing how much gap was present with the A.I. side curtains. A.I will redo the curtains from my measurements and pictures using my adapted (cut apart and repositioned pins that are being replated) on original inner steel frames with the more suitable rear upper curve.
That is likely the first time this 356 has worn a top since about 1959, as it was raced since day one being unloaded on these shores.



I bought 84255 in the '80s with a very flattened left side from slamming a wall in a race in the '70s, so as I had sold a pair of NOS Spededster doors to Parker Tyler already and it was too much money to buy them back, I made the replacement door from a nice clean C door.

Hey, it was only a race car! I then made the top garnish rail/curtain pin holder after I sold it and it was made more like it was when new, but at that time was never to get a top.

Things change.



I smashed the right door in my crash at the Glen. Chuck Stoddard also crashed his 917 at the same event. He felt sorry for me and handed me a nice high striker Speedster door at his swap meet the next year. I salvaged the end from the crashed door to convert to the later striker and had the door top included.....but again, it was never to get side curtains or a top. As the new owner's desires changed and it came around more to a 'regular' Speedster, the 'differences' of the cobbled corrections and make-do repairs began to become reasons for the more 'custom' work to make it all fit.

While it was nick-named "Frankenspeedster" by those who knew the transformation, it has it's original floor, longitudinals and cowls. The rest is like this website's name....A,B,C and some GT, and the owner wants it to be an outlaw with a lower case 'o.'

-Bruce

[JTR70]

WOW Bruce, that is quite the gap. Glad to hear Auto's is making a correct replacement per your specs. What an amazing transformation you have done taking this old warhorse back to street/hotrod configuration, incredible!

To be clear; is this the same car right?

Same car as well?

7/12/14
left hinge boss completed

Finished up the changes to the other half and this unit is now ready to be glued back together.

To ensure there is no fitment issues after welding like alignment or clearance I thought it best to bolt up a hinge to act as a jig while I joined them back together.

Side by side comparison with the stock coupe angle on the right and the new "speedster" configuration on the left.

One Speedster versioned hinge boss ready to mount back in the chassis. Converting the right side boss tomorrow. Thanks for looking! Justin

[bbspdstr]

Yes, Justin, that is the transmogrification of old 84255! It was rolled by owner #1 when just months old and silver, nose-overed a few years later by owner #2, left body-slammed into a solid concrete/steel wall by the owner #3 standing next to it when it was black and given a hard hip-check into the 'blue bushes' at Watkins Glen by owner #4, me, when the yellow version. It's back to silver.

Also, Justin, I have never done what you are doing with the hinge pods. I have just fixed a lot of hinge pods and their mounting areas. Fixed a lot of hinges, too....just never had to make a Coupe into a Speedster, D or Roadster. The one Coupe-to-Cab conversion I did didn't need that 'minor' alteration. Your commitment to detail is impressive, refreshing. Thanks for documenting!

-thanks,
Bruce

[JTR70]

WOW! I thought my old coupe had a rough life.
Thank you very much Bruce! As a lowly hobbiest a professional's approval is always high praise! Thanks again! Justin

7/14/14
Hinge boss modifications complete.

A pair of "speedster" hinge bosses now ready to be re-installed.

Some mild hammer and dolly work required to the closing wall before these could go in. Original spot-welds made for the perfect "locators" to get these positioned back in correctly. Screwed into position here and ready for a tack-weld.

Both sides initially mounted with hinges test fitted just to make sure.

I'm liking the new approach angle and they are even with each other. So far so good!

No better time then now to mount the hood for its very first initial test fit. This is the "new" donor hood that was purchased for this project. It has a few issues like rust at the nose and a kink on the right hand side.

Its going to need some "Perazzo" treatment over here.

The left side faired much better with only a hint of distortion.

"new" hood hinged and mounted for the very first time. Many, many miles yet to come but its a beginning.

hood resting in its new open locked "speedster" position.

With a good general fitment now confirmed I feel comfortable enough to weld the bosses in the rest of the way. Working on that tomorrow. Thanks for looking! Justin

[Phil Planck]

Justin
Great attention to detail. Nice job!
Phil

[MMW]

JTR70 wrote -- "Thank you very much Bruce! As a lowly hobbiest a professional's approval is always high praise!"

I would never consider you to be a "lowly hobbiest". You got skills! Your work is awesome! Keep it up, I love watching these cars coming back to life.

[bbspdstr]

Mic, I couldn't agree more.

"Professional" means someone takes money for doing something...it doesn't make them good or any better than someone who does something for themselves, especially if they do that something very well.

Case in point, I would hire Justin in a 'New York minute' (a saying you may know) but I doubt he would hire me if HE were to be the 'professional' needing help.
........and then there would be that awful commute!

-Bruce

[JTR70]

Thanks again Phil!

I really appreciate that Mic, Thank you! I'm still just a guy with a wire welder and an air compressor feeling his way in the dark.

Thanks a lot Bruce! No, I would definitely hire your services if I could afford you but that brings me back to why I had to learn in the first place.
You're right I should have qualified my definition of the term "professional" a bit more other than the dictionaries description as someone who does it for money. You're a reputable expert and well known 356 specialist in the community for about as long as I've been alive and as such your blessing carries a lot of weight. Actually I highly value everyone's input but a "pros" feedback is icing on the cake!
Thanks again you guys! Justin

7/17/14
Left A pillar closing wall

Well, the view from my hood hinge "plateau" was nice but I had to descend down into the valley of the next repair.

Paper template for the new pillar closing panel in process here. Rough drawn the eventual recess mount cup for the Speedster WS frame.

The original closing wall wrapped all the way around the edge of pillar frame runner which actually creates the gutter rail as it moves higher. Pealing away the remains of it here.

Template close enough and ready to move to steel. The inner flange has a bowed profile that had to be replicated so it will mount flush with the inner pillar shape.

New section in for its initial fitting.

Going to try an have the new section wrap around the outer pillar gutter flange as originally. Working on that next.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[JTR70]

7/18/14
Left A-pillar closing wall continued.

A nice thing about the pillar runner being made from heavy gauge is that it doubled as my hammer form to heel this edge over.

As far as I can go for now. Will pinch it closed once this wall goes on for good. A lot of things yet to do before that can happen.

One of them being the relief pocket for the Windshield mount. Using the opposite model here so it can lay flat to trace the basic opening I need.

Test fit with approximate position of the pocket.

I'd like to get this original closing section remounted but as you can see it welds over the newly rolled edge. So much of this area has to be done sequence so I don't lock myself out. A lot of assembly planning going on as well. The next piece that I need is the actual pocket so I can see how much the pillar needs to be removed to make way for it.

Will begin beating one into shape from this sheet section tomorrow. Thanks for looking! Justin

[JOP]

Morning Justin,
Really nice to follow your progress of the building a Speedster.
I like to see your way of getting passed a problem...may it be massive rust or missing piece you manange to get it right
The photos do tell alot more than just text.
Soo keep beating that metal with your hammers