Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[Jack Staggs]

2/21/13: Time wise I believe a minimum of 8 months...
Justin

You still have till the end of the week!!!

[JTR70]

Thanks for reminding me about that statement Jack!

[JTR70]

2/24/14
At last...just about ready to "touch bottom" on these chassis repairs.

Taking into account the main rear cross-member (trans-mount)replacement and the amount of rust and pitting to the engine compartment frame runners I decided to would be far easier, cleaner and faster to cut the frame off at the cross-member and order fresh sides from Steve Hogue.

These sections look okay from the outside however the inside is a different story. Severely pitted and weak.

Same story on the left side. New pieces will not only look better but I am saving a TON of grinding and cleaning prep time. If I where to save these I'd have to cut and clean this lower engine tray shroud, what's left of the side upper closing wall flanges and this rear closing bulk-head wall and its flange would have to be cleaned and prepped.


The weld seam will be here between the green lines so it can be supported (and partially hidden) under the shock mount reinforcement plate and bridge supported by the eventual new cross-member to the inside. Dismounting the frame from the rotisserie was of course next.


Two straight initial cuts down both sides instantaneously eliminated a lot of sin.

With the engine compartment now out of my way I have clear unobstructed access the that rotted old cross-member.

A very busy, heavily corroded junction I have to remove in layers.

Initial cut to give me additional access to these corners.

Note the reinforcement plate in there. Just a piece of flat stock with its mount flanges going in opposite directions (A "Z" profile) I may put a section of square stock in here just to give it a little more strength. Cross that bridge much later. Working on these corners tomorrow. Thanks for stopping by! Justin

[Phil Planck]

OMG Justin - now you have really done it. As my granddaughter says, Grandpa is building a car out in the garage. You are going way beyond that. Great photo documentation.

Phil

[JTR70]

Thanks Phil! I've had to go deeper than I had anticipated back here but no choice you have to keep cutting until you get past the rot. You shouldn't feel so bad about your car after looking at this bucket
Thanks again! Justin

2/25/14
Left corner cleanup continued:

Remains of outer cross-member panel almost free

I was mistaken this re-inforcement is not a "Z" section but rather channel stock that is spot-welded only the outer wall.

Inside remains of cross-member now cut free exposing the shock mount shank and anchor plate.

Cleaned and ground away most of the frame skin that was spot welded to this plate. More prep tomorrow. Thanks for looking! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Well, that series of work you have just done must prove a point to every 356 owner who thinks his car is not that rusty. I wonder how many years your chassis was on the road for, and where, in the USA it was running. The more I read this thread the more conviced I am that there must be many cars with the same rust problems you really don't see, without stripping down. Phil's car and the areas he is attempting is interesting enough but to see half your chassis on the floor, well your comment about understanding now how the factory did it all makes a lot of sense. Wise decision to buy those side panels from Steve.

Super clear photo's Justin on this current workload.

Roy

Hey, just thought, you could PPI 356 cars anywhere in the world now
and no doubt frighten everyone before they part with their money!!

[JTR70]

Thanks a lot Roy! I have learned a lot as well working on this chassis. As I have said before this is the rustiest project I've ever dealt with and what initially appears to be bad corrosion to the outer closing panels is but a harbinger of what most likely lies deep beneath.

This chassis on the outside could fool you on a PPI that its in pretty decent shape. However there is a lot of trouble going on under those reinforcement plates.

Now that I have this inner face exposed I am still finding more rot but this is the only way you'll ever see it. All things being equal if this was still a "project car" with its tar paper mat and or carpet still installed you'd never be aware of it on routine PPI. Its a real crap shoot purchasing an old 356 which has not been preserved like your car Roy.

2/27/14
More frame clean up

Chassis back up against the wall so I can continue flange removal.

Much nicer to grind on flat rather than upright.

Grinding down the inner cross member flange first.

Not a good sign here; I was able to pry the upper portion off with zero resistance. The old spot-welds gave up along ago from the rust. This is a prime example of why it was so important to come down in here. This is one of the main anchors for the cross-member. while there are many others that sandwich this unit together this is not a "real frame" like a truck frame but is instead flimsy sheet metal that relies on other sheet metal to triangulate and create strength. Not a comforting thought with a 300lbs drivetrain hanging and working off of this area.

Of course my screwdriver poked right through the wall. Damn it! Just when I thought I was done with surprise rust.

Lots of thick advanced corrosion lurking under there.

It was a total PIA to try and cut, clean and work under the low canopy of that anchor plate so I ended up cutting it off.

As I clean I'm finding more holes.

Paper templates and more cleaning prep tomorrow. Thanks for looking! Justin

[Phil Planck]

Justin

I think I found one worse than yours:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1285469

Phil

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Not to distrupt your excellent thread but your points about rust so well described regarding hidden areas which most would never see, can apply to people really interested in owning a 356A but knowing they don't have deep pockets.

So easy to think I can do that. This guy on DDK is sensible in asking questions before jumping in.

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47510

Roy

[JTR70]

Hey Phil, Yes, things certainly can always be worse however there is a point of no return and I think that Roadster is there. What was the old saying about repairs to a severally damaged car; "lift up the radiator cap of your old Ford and roll a new one under it"?

Thanks for the link Roy. From the photo it looks a bit better than the one here but again no one can say for certain until cutting begins to the old closing panels to reveal what lies beneath. Thanks again for putting out the good word there!! Appreciated always! Justin
3/2/14
The area was repaired last week but am a bit slow to update

Cut the area back to solid metal and wire wheel the area as best as I could to get it clean. Cavity was then coated in rust converter in preparation for the new patch.

New patch welded and dressed. I made a mistake and followed the contour the outer reinforcement which gave the to a more swoopy profile should have looked at the other side as it had more defined bends. Oh well, its solid again and will be buried deep in the chassis once it goes back together.

The tiny blow-out holes to the upper left is on the eventual cut line so I left them for the moment.

Got out of the shop on Friday to help knock rivets into this newly fabricated low bow speedster top frame. Thanks for looking! Justin

[JTR70]

3/4/14
Small update:

Old shock mount anchor acid dipped and cleaned of all rust with remnant flanges also ground smooth. Had a few rust holes to back fill before remounting. A very bad sign when thicker plate brackets even begin to rust through.

Rewelded back into position.

Rust holes to the right up next and also the final length cut on the frame runner.

Lower rust hole to go and a little more of the runner left still to trim. Will be onto the right side here shortly. I don't believe it to be as rusty as this side. we'll see Thanks for looking! Justin

[JTR70]

3/5/14
Left side repaired and prepped for new frame runner.

Doesn't look like much but it there is a lot of time grinding old flanges and repairing rust. Frame has been cut back to final length and is ready to accept the new side which is on order from Steve Hogue. Onto the right corner now though it does not seem as bad as this side was.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[JTR70]

3/13/14

Right side corner cleaned and prepped for new panel.

Okay, now I believe I have officially eliminated the last of the surprise chassis cancer. All clean here and ready for new side panels, cross member and seat pan. A lot of ceremony and a lot of mount flanges to grind off especially on those shock mount anchor plates but here it is at last all clean.

Though this side was not a rotted as the left the upper inner mount flange of the cross member again peeled right-off without a fight. I'm beginning to think that this portion on both sides may not have been spot-welded at all when new???

Again this side not as rusty but the lower panel under the bump stop still required a small patch. The upper portion was fine.

The culprit is this fine blow-sand like sediment that accumulated in that center drain embossment on the bump-stop plate. Any moisture that came into contact with it was immediately absorbed and held here rotting out the inner panel. That sand has probably been in here since the early 60's.

Here is the drain embossment that held that sediment. note that the bottom of this drain tube was bent closed just above the outlet.

Top-side opening. as you can see easy access for dirt and moisture. remnants down in the seam missed by the media blaster.


Anchor plate and side area cleaned of excess metal. Some rust here but not as severe requiring removal of the anchor plate to patch around the base like on the left side. Every once in a while a catch a tiny break.

Bump stop repair patch in and area about ready.

The lower flange section on this side however needs a small filler section. Templating it here.

While I wait for new sides from Steve I can begin fitment and filler panels for the new seat pan.


Templating the new flanged sides next.

Those perimeter repair section will come in very handy once again. Thanks for looking! Justin

[Jack Staggs]

3/13/14 Every once in a while I a catch a tiny break. Thanks for looking! Justin

Every once in a while a blind squirrel finds an acorn. HAPPY BIRTHDAY (40!) TREVOR

[Phil Planck]

Well Justin, you answered a question I have asked on my Foamcar thread. That is a drain channel. Mine is also plugged up pretty solid. Don't want to have to do what you did, but now I will have to figure out a way to inspect behind there. First I hope to get the Michigan petrified mud out of there, then hopefully be able to probe for weak metal. Then explain to my wife again, why I can't tell her when this project will be finished.