Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[Jack Staggs]

One more point to consider, on Speedster/D/Roadster dash the opening for the ignition switch is different than coupe/cab. On coupe/cab, the ignition switch hole is much larger, using a back up plate to fit in 2 horizontal slots, filed in to the opening, to keep the switch from rotating. The Speedster, etc, have a smaller hole with 6 slots to secure the switch, no back up plate. PIx, anyone?

[JTR70]

Thanks Jack! Here's the original ignition hole on my coupe:



And the original hole on that Speedster dash just as you described. On the new face I drilled a much smaller pilot hole just to locate it correctly for now as what was originally put in will require some time in hand filing.
Thanks again! Justin

[JOP]

Hmm, all these small details that you easy would have missed and just assumed be the same on all 356.
Jack, Super that you give Justin & all the 356 Nutz followers the heads up on correct details before we do something stupid
/ Per

[bbspdstr]

No substitute for experience.....although one has to be paying attention while getting that experience. I have 50-freekin'-years of 356 'experience' and I am still learning at least one thing new about 356s (or Porsches in general) every day. (That's a minimum of about 18,250 new things I've learned.)

The more intense about a car's details an enthusiast becomes, the more that enthusiast's chosen shop needs to learn.....if the work is done professionally and not by the hobbyist. Occasionally, unfortunately, I find that a VERY serious hobbyist will often know a few more things about a 356 than I do.

I guess if a medical professional can call their business a "practice," so can I. Isn't the old saying: "you get better with practice"?

In the last couple of years I have re-restored a few cars that I'd done over 30 years ago. Nice work at the time, but 'way more was expected by the (same) owners this time around. The bar has been set much higher now that the cars are more desired (even if for different reasons) and there are less of them...and any average owner now knows more about them...in details, if not in the ability to drive them the way they were meant to be driven.

There is a lyric in a great old song that goes; "The more I learn, the less I know." Too true.

Thanks, Justin, for this space for sharing experience and knowledge.

-Bruce

[JTR70]

We hobbyists have it a lot easier than you do Bruce. I know AT1's because its what I own. That specialized knowledge might bleed into late Pre-A and AT2 to an extent but my knowledge detail will diminish The earlier and later the cars get. You on the other hand have to be pretty well versed in them all. T5 and T6 cars are way too new for me!
Thank you for sharing that hard earned knowledge here with us!

4/3/15
Dash cap reprofiling cont.

Corner pounded back flat in prep for the new curve. Marker line represents where it was.

relief cuts where added as this are will need to be gathered up to make the turn and profile.

heated a section at a time and gently tapped the metal around my dash to get the correct shape. As my dash is not really a sturdy hammer-form, extra care had to be taken.

Of course its short and a skirt needs to be added on but the basic contour is looking very promising.

As you can see I need to chase the entire run to get a more accurate shape. Once its all flush I can then go to my paper template.
Thanks for stopping by!
Justin

[JTR70]

4/11/15

Been bad about updating. These are from this last week.

Fabricating the extension strip for the cap.

My first attempt was making it in sections. Shortly after this shot I realized this was going to turn out like shit so I threw it away and tried again.

New section made of one piece this time. Took some doing to get that gentle curve for the leading edge of it to look right.

Set screwing it into final position and relief opening in for the handle mount.

test fit with the pad strip.

Everything lining up nice.

ready to shape cut the excess off next. As you can most of will trimmed back before its over.

Both are mounted back on my "original hammer form" to make sure I get the spacing right. Thanks for looking! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin, its hard to start again after fabricating a piece but you always seem to make the right decision and not keep bending it or bashing it trying to get something wrong correct.

Bruce is so correct with his post above, everyone nowdays expect things to be perfect, in the 60's so many including me, did their best to get a good result but often at the expense of losing that original look. Its internet forums that have changed so much regarding that point of Bruce's. For sure 40 years ago I only had the workshop manuals, there was no way I could afford to take my car to the Porsche dealership. So when sites like yours show step by step procedures right, or wrong, as a reader with all the photos you start to really learn what way to approch a job. Tools, I have my collection every one cared for looked after, they help so much in producing the finished job. I looked a few years ago at your clamping tools the different styles the number you need and most of them I had never seen before.

How I fabricated parts over 40 years ago without today's tooling and tips I don't know. I enjoyed reading the post by Bruce he put all that very well.

Looking forward to your next instalment Justin.

Roy

[JTR70]

Thank you Roy!!

5/15/15

Initial tack weld and trim

Extension strip trimmed back almost to final width and tack welded for one of many test fits along the way.

As fitting of the face and cap continued it became clear that the face's leading edge at the gauge cluster needed some trimming to allow the cap to seat down farther to correct the general profile of the cap.

The confirmation that I was on the right track came from this comparative measurement from my original dash. As you can see its shy of 1 1/4 inches from the top of the center gauge opening to the top edge of the cap.

By comparison the repro dash is at a about 1 1/2 inches here, so about a solid 1/4 of an inch too high.

Trimming this area back will allow for the correction of this incorrect profile mentioned earlier. It should peak at the center then taper back down equally on both sides. As you can see the left side continues to rise.

It took a trim series of thin slivers but it eventually bottomed out against the cap at the correct height.

First mock-up and test fit afterward. Extension strip trimmed back to basic profile and tack welded working from the center outward.

A lot of final shaping and welding yet to come but the basic cap profile now is much closer to how it should be.

Slow stitching the extension strip on working from the center outward.

Slowly getting the original contours and details I'm after.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[John Pierce]

Justin,

I give you a lot of credit to persevere with this piece! We've said it before, but geez.....that piece should've been a bit closer to original.

Good for you! Keep slogging on

Cheers,

John

[JTR70]

Thanks a lot John! For the premium price paid for these panels, disappointment with their shape and detailed finish is an understatement.

4/16/15
Stitching cap and extension together.

Began stitching these two from center leftward.

This first half was the most straight forward. It gets a bit more tricky as there are two tapered contours both horizontally and vertically I have to keep an eye on as it goes.

one of the many repeat test fits along the way. Resembling my original dash more and more.

A few more inches rightward have now been welded and dressed here. The two parts were broken down, small section welded, dressed, reassembled, then mounted for a test fit: repeat you can see how quickly an afternoon can get away with not a lot to show for it.

The tail end of this section is contorting and fighting a bit so I had to go to a smaller increment stitch then test fit just make sure its going to come out right.

Another mock up to assess the contour and elevation of this corner.

Will finally have this wrapped up by tomorrow. thanks for looking! Justin

[JTR70]

4/19/15

Cap work Continued.
Like all the rest of it this too is turning out to a total PIA as far as fitment and contour.

I finally got the majority of the new flange shaped to my liking but the last few inches of the corner would just not curve and lay down like I needed so I cut it free to try again a bit later. I mounted it on my dash for a quick check and to plan my next move on the left corner.

As I planed my approach it occurred to me that now would be a good time to catch the rest of the required cap work up. The defroster openings for sure.

I began a mock-up with W/S frame to help establish the trim line at the lower base.

As this planning progressed the dash face just didn't sit or look right to me.

It became clear that the attitude of the face especially at the gauges sat too vertically-leaning almost downward. The face should sit slightly tilting upward but only slightly. When the D and Roadsters came out they were set at an even steeper upward tilt. The face is also sitting inward a good 1/4 inch too far. I'll be re-adjusting these outer mount flanges to correct the approach angle and the depth. Glad I figured this one out before I trimmed the leading edge of the cap as this adjustment will definitely change its final position. This is such a small aspect of the car but as you can see there is so much all going on at once and everything has to fit and look correct once its all over. Reworking the flanges tomorrow.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[Jack Staggs]

Hmmm... somehow reminded me of this, in more than one way:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/The_Scream.jpg

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Jacks picture is a bit like your dash for sure confusing! I have looked and looked and realise the eventual welding of the dash capping will be covered with the vinyl or leather top. I looked at photos of speedsters and you are correct the dash itself is slightly off vertical with the bottom tilted upwards a few degrees.
You are so right, it would have looked wrong without that tilt. Never ever noticed that without you pointing it out.

So many things to think of Justin.

Roy

[JTR70]

If I'm not mistaken that painting's titled "the Scream"?? Perfect Jack, that's about how I felt when I realized I was going to have to reflange the sides again.

Thank you Roy! You're right this area does get covered over in vinyl but there is no padding so the basic shape will directly transfer through. I guess after enough filler the correct shape could be sculpted out but I'm trying to avoid that. Thanks again for appreciating all that's going on here! Justin

4/21/15

dash face reposition.

Face repositioned with desired approach angle with corrected distance from the trunk wall. The column is also mocked up to make sure its still going to end up in the right spot. With this now established I can add in the new flange section to lock in this new position and attitude.

New flange section tacked and set.

Making sure that the column is NOT centered under the tac. and favors leaning toward the left door as Jack and Tom pointed out earlier.

Thank you again for sharing that factory detail again guys. I would have naturally tried to centered it and been completely wrong.


Repeat on right side tomorrow. With the left side set and ready this corner now over shoots the A-pillar by about a 1/4 inch. Will have to cut and reshape as well as flange... (insert that painting again here Jack)
Thanks for stopping by! Justin

[bbspdstr]

Justin, I am really impressed by your work and attention to details plus planning ahead. Plus patience, dedication and focus.

Your presentation of this difficult work is the best way for anyone not doing this (or the work shown on other threads) themselves to see why it can be so tedious and therefore, at any typical shop rate, expensive.
A thank you from one who depends on this understanding for his living.

-Bruce