1959 356A S/R coupe project chassis # 108625

[JTR70]

Hey Roy, The difference is so subtle that nobody could really pick up on it. Not even with an A and a T5 car sitting side by side. I only found it through this unexpected issue of an oversized poorly fitting rear bumper. I wish I had a B/C bumper on hand to hold up to these two tails for further confirmation but this is all I have. As you know the B/C bumper ends mount through the body but that change is on the fender side of the joint so this T5 tail could easily slip by on an A car unless you have a problem with how it fits around the corners. We did modify the bumper and then some. That coming up next. Thanks again! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Well Justin having driven in the past a 356C for years I also never really noticed the difference in the tail panel to my 356A. You did not need that Justin. I think if I were caught like this it would have to be a 356B bumper as they must be different also to the 356A??? I suppose you could modify the the existing bumper to fit and probably no one would ever have known or would know except for those who carry a rule in their pocket all the time! You are very honest Justin Whatever you do I am sure it will look just fine.

Roy

[JTR70]

Direct overlay for comparison:
356A tail skin clamped directly to this T5 tail for further confirmation regarding this shape discrepancy. Clamped tightly at the edges in closest position.
At the center the panels nearly touch so no real changes there.
Out at the corners is where the differences begin. There is a good inch of space between these two panels out at the tail lights.
And a good half inch of space between the aprons. There is some light damage to this tail so this is just an average. A good upward view into the right tail light opening showing the same distance discrepancy that was found on the left side.
Though a bit wrinkly the general discrepancy between these two corresponds with the bumper spacing and reveal issues we are having. Though very subtle these tail skin profile shapes were changed from 356A to BT5. The 356A tail is slightly more bulbous and blunt around the corners whare by contrast a 356B tapers quicker and is slightly narrower; about two inches narrower overall than a 356A version. Always learning something new about these cars...

Thanks for looking.

Justin

[JTR70]

This is a full on 356BT5 tail skin factory installed on this late 356AT2.

Took a hard detailed look as to why this factory T2 rear bumper was so oversized in its fitment against this particular tail. Again, the example 356AT1 does swing wider at its corners but not to this degree.
The embossment for the coming T5 reverse light is the obvious "transitional" detail but there is more to it as this rear bumper issue began to highlight.
Again, after taking a really hard look at it I finally noticed the detent markings for the eventual T5 reflector bases above the tail light; both sides.
Then there are these later drain holes in the corners. Definitely an evolutionary thing.
Confirmation against this loose T1 tail section with the typical teardrop update from way back in the day. The tail is relaxed of course but it still fills up and sits well into the profile shape of this bumper. So the problem isn't with this rear bumper.
By contrast this tails' profile tapers and narrows much quicker; its different. You could easily assume this was just an A rear tail with a simple embossment add on change to the middle but coming to find out that the entire tail section is subtly different. The bumper is 356A and this entire tail is 356B. It was beginning to make sense as to why the fit was so off. More on this next...

Thanks for looking.

Justin

[JTR70]

Rear bumper to body reveal and contour issues.

Shortly after sending the mock up shots in the previous posts to the owner, I was made aware that the reveal and the general contour shape at the corners were too wide and unsatisfactory. I really didn't question it at first as the bumper is original with no previous collision damage and the tail skin also being original though with minor damage retains its general overall factory contoured shape.
It does swing big and wide at the corners.
Both sides...
but so does this bumper though not quite as accentuated. This is an original undamaged AT1 bumper mounted with original irons against an original AT1 tail skin. This seems to be just a general production fit and they tend to swing a little wide at the corners. We discussed all this and while this may have been the way they came to varying degrees he felt that fitment on this car was too poor and would be seen as an obvious shortcoming to its final presentation.
I unbolted the bumper set in a box and pushed it over to the left side to create this much tighter uniformed reveal with an improved overall contour shape against the tail. This pleased us both immediately.
By contrast this is where the left side ended up to create that tight and uniform shape on the other side. This is going to require a good bit of alteration to the bumper to achieve the fit we're after against this body.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

[JTR70]

More rear bumper component confirmation fitment:
Crawled under the car to add the exhuast funnels to confirm ample clearance with the body's lower skirt. Left side clear...
and all clear on the right side as well.
All the while keeping the struts centered through the holes.
Left side good to go.
Lastly, the reveal around the body spaced out to its best average fit. The center could stand to come out a touch more to catch up with the sides but at this point the bumper is pulled out as far as it would go. Any further and the struts would no longer reach without modification so the factory parameters were now coming into play.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

[JTR70]

Strut tube work:
A heavy bar with my floor jack made for the most straight forward and easy correction on those curled over tabs. Only a matter of dialing in the mounting surface at just the right height so the tube would exit out of the hole at center.
As the test fitting moved over to the left side I realized that I had been supplied with two right hand units.
Quickest solution so I could keep going was to cut off an end and flip it over for a left hand application.
Modified tube tack welded and in for a confirmation fit. Mounting tab at just the right level for the tube to exist out in the center. Ready to weld it back up.
With that I had every bumper related component mounted and fitting together as best as I was hoping for at this stage.

[JTR70]

Bumper Iron finishing After several sounds of heat and readjustments to both halves I finally had the needed approach angle along with the eyelet alignment I was after.
Repeat left side...
Towards the end of this sides' process I ended up with about the same issue as I did on the right side; oh well at least I was consistent. Onto another round of give and take from both halves to get this issue smoothed out.
First full bumper mock up with fully bolted up irons and chrome trim.
Begin introducing the strut tubes for further fitment and locating confirmation. A little more residual old crash damage discovered as the mounting tabs have been bent downward.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

[JTR70]

Bumper iron sculpting:
A brief and small window into what turned out to be a constant repeated process of shaping these irons to not only fit into the bumper mounts flush but also allowing for maximum adjustment at the eyelets while holding the bumper centered with the desired reveal away from the tail and at the right pitch.
Above shots are just two examples of what turned out to be many, many holding jig configurations then onto heat so these heavy pieces of steel could manipulated closer with each try into the needed shape and length whare needed.
Eventually got a flush fit into the bumper mounts but as you can see that was only a start. The ends are cockeyed and need some twist at the tips so they'll run parallel from side to side with one another. The eyelets on the frame side of this mount are nearly even at this point....
but once the ends were heeled over to meet the pitch that is needed for a flush fit against the chassis the tail length and eyelet alignment went completely out the window. The eyelets on the bumper side are also bottomed out against each other locking out any lateral adjustments options that may be needed... back to the drawing board.
With the pitch set and the ends brought back to open and even the end on this irons' eyelet was way out of range. This would require another round of give and take from both halves to dial all of this in to where it was needed. Again, this was just one example in a long series of repeated adjustments and mock ups to get these to fit properly. After it was decided that the bumper needed to be modified this process began again... all of that a bit later.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

[JTR70]

Rear bumper trial fitment:
Irons on both sides mounted for the first time.
First test fit. Notice how wide this bumper swings away at the corners. I didn't realize it yet but this would be the beginnings of another in depth detour/ learning experience.
Tilts upward a touch but again this was just the jumping off point.
Could only get one bolt started on each side but it was someplace to start.

Lots of reshaping and incremental adjustments to come.

[JTR70]

Thanks a lot Roy. We were expecting the rear bumper to go even quicker but as it turned out it became more of an in depth dive than I could of imagined. Will be posting that up here shortly. J.

[roy mawbey]

Justin the front bumper looks great now and the back one should turn out well for you. A lot of work though on those bumpers. As I have said many times lucky my car had bumpers in good condition when I bought my car 56 years ago. So they are still okay now

Roy

[JTR70]

Minor residual crash damage:
Bottom skirt needs a little ironing out. The back end of this car has never been hit hard but it was nerfed at some point causing some minor damage to the skin
and to the corners of the chassis at the bumper mounts. The forward hole has been stretched outward from the impact.
Eventually got it pounded back into shape using this square stock clamped into position as a bucking board.
Corner of the chassis all squared back up with the new bumper irons fully bolted down for the first time.
Similar damage on the left corner but a little lighter. Repeated the process on this side. Notice the upper strut tube mounting tabs have been pushed downward as well. Easy fixes thankfully.

[JTR70]

Begin rear bumper fitment
Original bumper (not to this car) and a new reproduction bumper iron set.
All the threads had to be chased first.
Initial mock up.
A bit of shaping and rebending before these fit to the bumper much less the car itself but its a starting point.
Turned the car around and dismounting my rotisserie rig to prep the car for its new rear bumper.

[JTR70]

Last mock up
Now onto the rear bumpers' final fitment.

Thanks for looking.

Justin