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1959 356A S/R coupe project chassis # 108625

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  • JTR70
    replied
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9831.jpg Views:	0 Size:	256.2 KB ID:	113657 I ran a cutting wheel through the tear to take out the excess then stitched it working from the bottom to chase out to the flange. Once I got there I ran into shape and alignment issues. The metal is thick and the area is very tough to get at on this bench, especially from the backside. After a couple of attempts I knew the flanged edge was not going to turn out cleanly. I needed to start fresh.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9835.jpg Views:	0 Size:	195.5 KB ID:	113658 I could fabricate a new flanged section but with this original donor just laying around taking up space; here was the answer.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9834.jpg Views:	3 Size:	207.7 KB ID:	113659 This beam by the way is bent! Bottom tube is bowed badly in the center as it was shoved clear into the front of the floor. This unit was a factory replacement front chassis clip that could have been purchased from Porsche back in the day. This was installed so long ago that it was brazed in and the new battery box unit that would have come with it had almost rusted away. The green primer lurks underneath, brass welds are were a ton of spot welds should be (factory) to attach to the sides of trunk floor. The coupe this came from had a rough life. It was obviously wrecked bad enough to require a new frame clip then it subsequently wrecked again... and bad enough to bend this replacement beam! Then...it was repair attempted again at some point with a bunch of fish plating and huge MIG weld passes. Just a knarly mess the front of this car was. What a valuable NOS frame section this would be today had it not been sacrificed all those years ago, sad.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9836.jpg Views:	5 Size:	267.6 KB ID:	113660 Final cut line. Going to get past the damaged flange and a little of the sin below it.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9837.jpg Views:	5 Size:	238.1 KB ID:	113661 New section harvested from that donor.

    Thanks for looking!

    Justin
    Last edited by JTR70; Today, 10:28 PM.

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  • JTR70
    replied
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9824.jpg Views:	0 Size:	220.1 KB ID:	113651 Going to begin taking the rearward pressure off of the left side pins first.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9827.jpg Views:	0 Size:	200.1 KB ID:	113652 Bottle jack placed under the left side to take up the weight of this corner with chain puller back into position with tension allowing the pins to slide in and out freely.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9828.jpg Views:	0 Size:	513.6 KB ID:	113653 While its under load I'm going to repair the lower cove first to begin restoring the integrity of this wall.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_6725.jpg Views:	0 Size:	461.5 KB ID:	113654 At first glance I thought this was an initial cut was from a pneumatic chisel thinking that the body shop may have planned to clip this car way back when but Vic Skirmants correctly diagnosed its cause being from the tie-rod striking it during the accident.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9829.jpg Views:	0 Size:	509.1 KB ID:	113655 After a few rounds of heat it was coming up and closing but this area was badly mangled and stretched in the accident. You can see the tear overlapping itself here.
    Last edited by JTR70; Today, 08:48 PM.

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  • JTR70
    commented on 's reply
    Thank you Roy! Cellette sells a dedicated pneumatic pulling tower/arm attachment but that is several thousand more plus freight; Not a good investment for the actual amount of use it would see for my purposes. Then there is the storage in my little shop while not in use. I knew I could rig something and get by without it since this beam really didn't have far to go. Yes, it wants to spring backwards slightly and while that's a pain and a bit of curve ball to account for during this process its a good sign as it means the steel retains its tensile strength. Had this chassis gone through a fire the metal would all be annelid. If pulled on like I'm doing here it would just move with no spring back or strength. While much simpler and easy to manipulate, that would not be a good sign.
    Last edited by JTR70; Today, 08:06 PM.

  • roy mawbey
    replied
    Justin, Fantastic and so well described and detailed with all those photos. I have wondered for years how they attempted this type of bodywork repair on the Cellette. Now it makes sense to me.

    One question I have, the red pull out ' jack' handle used to stretch the chains did you have to put a long handle on it to increase the 'pull' on the chain? ( I expect the pull out unit has a different name to it not jack as I used.)

    Never gave a thought to the stretched out part moving back on release of chain pressure !

    Great thread!

    Roy

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  • JTR70
    replied
    Second right side pull:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9820.jpg Views:	0 Size:	220.0 KB ID:	113643 Three pins inserted with one more to go. The top pin is crowded out by literally half the width of the edge of the beam.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9821.jpg Views:	0 Size:	239.3 KB ID:	113645
    I thought I could sneak it in with a quick and direct pull down from this angle but after several cranks with no real change I felt there was too much tension going through the lower pin as the pivot point so I stopped. It would have to be at a more level angle.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9822.jpg Views:	0 Size:	242.8 KB ID:	113644 The only possible anchor point I had on hand high enough and stout enough to secure to was a leg on my welding table. This entire table is super heavy duty and weighs every bit of 300+pounds; only a floor jack can pick up an end of it. Anyway once it was resting against the beam I knew it was going to give me what I needed.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9823.jpg Views:	0 Size:	465.3 KB ID:	113646
    I started cranking but it still didn't want to give those last couple of MM's. Only after I reheated that upper area where it had kinked did it finally give me the needed clearance to get that final pin home.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9825.jpg Views:	0 Size:	208.8 KB ID:	113647
    All the pins where in! The front and rear beams are finally back within factory specs in relation to one another; its a nice start. This is only step one of this new chapter as there is a ton tension going through those pins as the beam desperately wants to back. I'll be further relaxing and correcting the metal panel behind the beam with additional chain pulls as it goes. The final goal is pin alignment with zero tension on them and the frame. I was just happy and relieved to have gotten to this stage. Small bites...

    Thanks for looking!

    Justin
    Last edited by JTR70; 02-05-2023, 08:51 PM.

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  • JTR70
    replied
    Left side beam pull:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9816.jpg Views:	0 Size:	480.8 KB ID:	113637 Gusset removed like the other side to weaken this area a little further to make the pull easier on everyone. Brake line tab was also removed so its out of the way while I make the repairs to the cove hole later on. I forgot to take a shot of this area before the pull and as you can see the pins were successfully inserted at this point.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9635.jpg Views:	0 Size:	174.5 KB ID:	113638 Earlier photo highlighting how far out this side of the beam was.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9819.jpg Views:	0 Size:	242.2 KB ID:	113639 Trying to equal out both sides of this beam as much as possible as the pulling goes so I' started down low on this side first. Since the right side top remains out just a touch I figured I'd address the top beam correction last.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9815.jpg Views:	0 Size:	206.6 KB ID:	113640 After several pretty high tension tugs I heard a "click" somewhere behind the beam. I tried the pins and much to my surprise and relief I was able to get them both inserted on this single pull. I thought for sure I was going to have to do a second pull from the top to get the upper pin in but no it all came out in one shot.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9818.jpg Views:	0 Size:	655.0 KB ID:	113641 Here was the source of that "click" sound I heard on that final tug. This fracture highlights the trigger point in all that old damage above it and why all weld repairs where paused ahead of this area until it could be pulled out.
    Last edited by JTR70; 02-05-2023, 07:56 PM.

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  • JTR70
    replied
    Initial front beam pull: Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9700.jpg Views:	0 Size:	222.9 KB ID:	113631 Planning the first pull. The jig shows this side of the beam pushed slightly back and upward. The bump stop was the natural choice to anchor onto for this initial downward and out pull.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9805.jpg Views:	0 Size:	220.4 KB ID:	113632 Chassis chalked, beam jig with pins installed and new puller set and ready to take the first bite. Just had to lower the bottle jack slightly as it went.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9810.jpg Views:	0 Size:	506.9 KB ID:	113633 The chassis is supported and chalked right to the end of the bulkhead wall to be the fulcrum point for the downward correction. As the pull went the obvious kink at the top of the chassis was heated, pulled out a little further, then repeated. The round cove was also hammered back into form as this process went.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9811.jpg Views:	0 Size:	491.3 KB ID:	113634 By the end of the first pull the bottom pin was in with the upper very close but still just slightly out of range for insertion. The next pull needs to be at a more level approach to get this one. BTW: once the tension was released the beam relaxed out of range again though not as far as initially. I knew it wasn't going to give up on the first try. Anyway before I go further I'm heading over to the left side for its first pull to catch it up with this side. I left the bottom pin in over here to let it all get used to the idea while I pull the other side.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9812.jpg Views:	0 Size:	206.1 KB ID:	113635 In process now of removing the lower gusset and the brake line tab in preparation to give this side its first pull.

    Thanks for looking!

    Justin
    Last edited by JTR70; 02-04-2023, 09:41 PM.

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  • JTR70
    commented on 's reply
    Hey Roy, it checked out a lot better than I thought it was going to.

  • roy mawbey
    replied
    Well done Justin great to know just how good that check was!
    Roy

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  • JTR70
    replied
    Checking beam for parallel part 2:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9711.jpg Views:	0 Size:	218.3 KB ID:	113621 Rotated the dowls and checked it from the front. Same result, I could not generate a rocking motion in the plate. The twin beams on this side are running as parallel in relation to one another as they can be.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9718.jpg Views:	0 Size:	201.3 KB ID:	113622 Moved over to the left side. A slight rocking motion could be generated over here. Feeler gauge inserted into the discrepancy.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9719.jpg Views:	0 Size:	217.5 KB ID:	113623 Thickest gauge I could get in there was 6 thousandths. Practically nothing...
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9717.jpg Views:	0 Size:	215.4 KB ID:	113624 My factory manual states max misalignment allowed is 31 thousandths... This beam is golden.

    It was nice luxury to confirm this beams trueness with a factory checking tool but I'd have been shocked to find this assembly out of spec. If you've ever held this unit in your hands the first thing you'll notice is just what a heavy duty unit it actually is. The tubes and outer(also inner) flanges are really heavy gauge steel and if you're seeing my earlier pictures on the actual "frame" attachment points that surround it, it becomes apparent that the much thinner corrugated sheets really have a tiger by the tail. This beam assembly is the boss and the pressed frame sections will give way and deform long before it does. I do have a bent beam assembly floating around in my shop but the car it came out of had this beam shoved all the way back up and into the pedals. So they will bend but this car wasn't hit that hard. Onto pulling this beam assembly back out to factory specs.

    Thanks for looking and my thanks once again to John Brooks!
    Justin
    Last edited by JTR70; 01-24-2023, 11:37 PM.

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  • JTR70
    replied
    Checking the front beam assembly for parallel.

    We know the front beam has been shifted a touch in the chassis but the next step was to make sure the twin beam assembly itself was still running square. John Brooks was generous enough to loan us his Factory VW-256 tube gauge.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9674.jpg Views:	3 Size:	207.6 KB ID:	113615 The tool arrived nicely packaged in its old original wooden box. My machinist has purchased many German cutting heads and specialized tooling throughout his career and aside from the quality what stood out to him was the beautifully crafted wooden box they would all come in. Same thing rings true here. Note the twin collars on the lid for a 356 application.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9675.jpg Views:	0 Size:	211.1 KB ID:	113616 Initial mock up with the checking plate resting on the plank here. Realized that inner bushing had been removed so no way of getting an accurate reading this time around. Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9709.jpg Views:	0 Size:	173.9 KB ID:	113617 New bushing set arrived a few days later. These new urethane versions should hold up a lot better than the old bakelite units.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9715.jpg Views:	0 Size:	478.0 KB ID:	113618 New bushings installed with a venier of lithium grease on the contact surfaces for ease of installation. Checking plate resting on the reference surfaces.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9714.jpg Views:	0 Size:	457.7 KB ID:	113619Much to my surprise I could generate no detectable rocking motion in this plate; I was expecting at least a little movement.
    Last edited by JTR70; 01-24-2023, 11:13 PM.

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  • JTR70
    commented on 's reply
    It should Roy, just another little detour along the way of getting the build details correct.

  • roy mawbey
    replied
    I remember Justin reading that thread about the difference in Battery width location beween T1 and T2. Lets hope it it all pulls out okay and the modification to the battery box goes okay too.

    Roy

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  • JTR70
    replied
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9665.jpg Views:	0 Size:	222.2 KB ID:	113573 New battery box is here and as you can see it came preassembled. However, the way the side walls are lapped over it would be far easier and cleaner if this rear bulkhead wall was out of my way.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9667.jpg Views:	0 Size:	200.0 KB ID:	113574This standard offering is incorrect for a T2 BTW. The battery recess in the wall is the narrower T1 version. Original T2 version laying on the floor above. This detail was discussed here: Evolution of the 356A T1 & T2 How they differ - ABCGT Forum‚Äč
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9668.jpg Views:	0 Size:	175.8 KB ID:	113575This T2 wall's recess is about an inch wider and slightly asymmetrical to compensate for the additional width allowing it to mount in between the standard and unchanged front beam flanges. I'll be repairing donating this wall for the project so naturally this new battery box unit will be coming apart for both correction and installation.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9653.jpg Views:	0 Size:	195.1 KB ID:	113576 Front lower gusset removal: My initial plan was to repair the bottom of this gusset and leave the remains alone but I want this beam as unsecured as possible in preparation for an easy correction pull.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9654.jpg Views:	0 Size:	214.8 KB ID:	113577 Gusset remains easily removed as the middle portion of the spots had given up which is rare. As you can see I stopped welding the new flange at the front bulkhead in preparation for the eventual beam pull. Only this single unflanged portion of this old wall is now maintaining this beams position. This is now going to be a very easy pull back out into factory specs. Once its there all the strength and integrity will be added back in.

    Thanks for looking!
    Justin
    Last edited by JTR70; 01-10-2023, 10:19 PM.

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  • JTR70
    replied
    Front tube area prep:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9661.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.61 MB ID:	113568 Going after this last remnant of OG battery box side wall.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9657.jpg Views:	0 Size:	211.2 KB ID:	113569 Last portion of the actual frame "wall" overlaps it and terminates here. In process of drilling out the last remaining spot welds. There where of course a few.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9658.jpg Views:	3 Size:	205.8 KB ID:	113570 Lower portion of the frame "wall" drilled free and peeled back behind the tubes and out of the way revealing the rest of that old wall. Heading upward to free the rest of it.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_9666.jpg Views:	3 Size:	213.0 KB ID:	113571 My intention was to save a straighten this side of the battery box wall out and I'd still like to do that but we'll have to see as this repair and pull progresses.
    Last edited by JTR70; 01-10-2023, 09:40 PM.

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