58367 The $75 Junkyard Carrera coupe restoration

[JTR70]

Hi John,

My knowledge of paint is limited but Lacquer is its own unique system and I believe the original. Its not just clear coat for sure as I remember the Gold standard for a Black paint job was a lead based "nitro-cellulose Lacquer" single stage paint. Ditzler I remember stopped producing it in the late 70's for obvious reasons so a gallon of this stuff in the 80's was literally worth its weight in gold especially to the old school hot rodders. What was so desired about it was in direct sun light it remained pitch black where the newer systems and or lesser finishes at the time (enamels and such) took on a brown hue. Also this paint cured super hard for a superior color sand finish with a deep, deep shine. Again in direct sunlight the super fine cobweb scratches/haze (most people wouldn't see) that a trained eye would see could be polished out as other paints would never cure hard enough to allow that fine of a polish. This hardness had its trade offs though, as the years rolled by the finish would begin to crack hence the name "lacquer checking". Correct all the newer Urathane systems are akin to plastics.

I know Bruce would have more to add concerning the old Lacquers.
Justin

[roy mawbey]

John,

Over here in the UK it has always been called nitro cellulose. Usually the word cellulose was only used when buying it. Nitro clear 'Thinners' 'was used to make the correct mix for the spray gun.

These products are still produced but only in the smaller quantity or for the special application.

Roy

[bbspdstr]

"... This hardness had its trade offs though, as the years rolled by the finish would begin to crack hence the name "lacquer checking". Correct all the newer Urathane systems are akin to plastics.

I know Bruce would have more to add concerning the old Lacquers.
Justin"

Lacquer....nitro and otherwise....was how it was done early-on. I cannot add much more to what Justin said other than to say lacquer was very forgiving except in damp cool conditions. The rapid evaporation would condense water out of the air and usually be a problem.

A couple of years ago I got a call from a guy for whom I painted an A Coupe, in lacquer.....in the early '70s. He said it still looked good and polished well....but the cracks were a-comin.'

Also, we call urethanes "plastic coatings" and not "paint." Not as forgiving but longer lasting than lacquers.

-Bruce

[jjeffries]

Thanks all. I've painted with acylic lacquer a few times and loved it. Spray, wet sand and buff. DuPont Lucite was quality stuff and still in general use (mostly for spot repairs by then) when I first got interested in this stuff as a college kid in the mid 80's doing more work on cars than hitting the books. Such easy stuff to get great results with, albeit not so durable. Despite what many believe, you can still buy it online and UPS seems to ship it, maybe out of ignorance. I have about 3/4 gal of Alfa 501 Red carefully stored in my basement, but will use urethane when I get round to sorting out the car its intended for, just for durability's sake.

Back to the 80's: I used to hand-polish a guy's Series II Rolls Silver Shadow; it was black and must have been nitro-cellulose, since it was a) original, b) gorgeous and c) the color came off on the flannel rags (pre-microfiber). This was in Pasadena, California and I remember going to the accessory shop, MG Mitten on Colorado Blvd and asking them what to use. They set me up with Meguiars Pre-Wax cleaner (it had to some cut to it), then a very oily Hand Glaze, then Harley Top Hat Pure Carnuba Wax. This threesome of products worked very well, and the RR's finish seemed to absorb that glaze like skin absorbs lotion. I think the detailing took me two days, but the gentleman had me work at his home, gave me a radio to listen to and access to his garage fridge, stocked with Coors (no designer beers back then). I was a happy, hard-working kid, recently arrived my the UK and could not have enjoyed myself any more than I did doing this kind of work.

Re: Justin's accurate remark about today's black having too much brown: I did a panel on my black 82 911 and it came out with that exact brownish tint (single stage Nason brand urethane...Used to be sold as DuPont until they sold that business). I took the car to a friend's shop where a smart young painter looked at it with one of those fancy (and very cool) 3M flashlights that replicate sunlight (?). He mixed me up something that proved to be perfect, and told me that what's missing was enough blue in the recipe.

Thanks All, John

[bbspdstr]

...speaking of the '80s, I had a terrific young painter and a nice downdraft booth for him to work in.

We took in a nice black 911 SC for rear left quarter panel damage repair. This was not base/clear (yet) so Alex mixed up the black he expected to match to the door and masked it panel-to-panel.

To our joint surprise, when the paint was ready, the paper came off and we saw two significantly different blacks!

That was our first realization that there was a "VW black" and a "Porsche black." A brown-black and a blue-black.

Much continued to come out about that. Toyota's use of different ingredients for their black and the Mercedes blacks like "squid ink" and the like.....whose black was the blackest....and then the metallic blacks....and on and on.

As paint companies merge and morph their product lines into others, the chemistry evolves and pressure increases for environmental concerns as well as human health and safety, painting of cars is a moving target.

Ya jus' get used to one line and next time ya order ya jus' need to get used to another......

-Bruce

[roy mawbey]

Yes Bruce, the same with Meissen Blue 4 different suppliers 4 different shades. Sure,if the whole car is sprayed it will look okay but for touch up you can see differences.

Roy

[jetdog]

Hi Justin,
Just re-read your thoughts on your amazing 356 Carrera rebuild rescue journey.
Your two years ago paint job still looks great, no bubbles in finished
product is a very good sign. Perfect alloy deck lid you have there, Trevor does fantastic work, my coupe has a nose clip from his shop, the original had just too many prior "track" mishaps and thin metal from dents and wrinkle grinding.
Last June the refreshed T5 made it back home in a U-Haul after 4 years of resto in Oregon. Heavy load of metalwork, twisted body realigned, floor pan and numerous metal bits and paint completed over a three year period plus a year in storage while space was made in my tiny garage.
Photo shows on flat deck after emerging from U-H, still shiny, with.... one little dent in drivers alloy door. It's
taken 33 years to get to this stage, and has yet to run under it's power. It has suddenly gotten closer with Polo motor and WEVO-5 speed recently arriving ...the year clock is relentless. Was 31 when purchase was made for a no longer running former track beauty, it was pile of dents, chock full of incorrect parts rust and twisted ill fitting metal. Here I type 33 years later...tick,.. tock, where did the dang time go?
Keep the faith, and quickly, pass the wrench!
Pete

...VIA ACARS DATA....

[roy mawbey]

I have to say I started looking at the photos first before reading any text. So when I came to the pics of your garage I was bemused. My thoughts were how on earth did he manage that in there! I know in the 60's I had a self built garage but at least it had a long deep pit.
Then I read the text.!!

It looks like you will end up with a fantastic T5. A long time to do all that like Justin but boy will you appreciate the first drive in the future.

Its not easy though having to wait more than a few years!

Look forward to seeing the progress. Like to hear how the Polo and the trans goes in.

Roy

[merbesfield]

Beautiful car. Tell us about the engine. Polo?

[356hunter]

would like to hear details on 5 speed trans too!

[neilbardsley]

Hi Justin,
Just re-read your thoughts on your amazing 356 Carrera rebuild rescue journey.
Your two years ago paint job still looks great, no bubbles in finished
product is a very good sign. Perfect alloy deck lid you have there, Trevor does fantastic work, my coupe has a nose clip from his shop, the original had just too many prior "track" mishaps and thin metal from dents and wrinkle grinding.
Last June the refreshed T5 made it back home in a U-Haul after 4 years of resto in Oregon. Heavy load of metalwork, twisted body realigned, floor pan and numerous metal bits and paint completed over a three year period plus a year in storage while space was made in my tiny garage.
Photo shows on flat deck after emerging from U-H, still shiny, with.... one little dent in drivers alloy door. It's
taken 33 years to get to this stage, and has yet to run under it's power. It has suddenly gotten closer with Polo motor and WEVO-5 speed recently arriving ...the year clock is relentless. Was 31 when purchase was made for a no longer running former track beauty, it was pile of dents, chock full of incorrect parts rust and twisted ill fitting metal. Here I type 33 years later...tick,.. tock, where did the dang time go?
Keep the faith, and quickly, pass the wrench!
Pete

...VIA ACARS DATA....

Actually I will take your garage over mine! Reduce the width by 30cm on each side and put a 15-20cm difference in height between the two side then you have my garage

[merbesfield]

would like to hear details on 5 speed trans too!

Me too. Missed that. I can see it will easily mount to your engine, but what was required inside?

[JR]

Hey Justin,
Great write up on the PCA E-Brake news this morning.
Nice to read about someone you know!
Dick

[JOP]

https://www.pca.org/news/2018-02-06/barnfinding-junkyard-carrera

[JR]

Good man!
I was just about to do it!
https://www.pca.org/news/2018-02-06/barnfinding-junkyard-Carrera
Dick