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'63 356B T-6 Rebuild

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  • In re-reading the door fit part of this thread, I feel the need to suggest that the door fit itself is the first and most critical step.

    Gaps, sight-lines, levels all done, one panel to another on each side of the car. The flow of the curves is always an "eye" thing.

    Shimming hinges if necessary, getting the latches and strikers adjusted so that when the door is gently tugged, it's level to the quarter panel and likewise the trailing edge of the front fender.....THEN the dealings with the seal(s) and the mock-up thereto can begin. Seal channels can be modified or relocated, seals may be modified....even if the original build showed none of that was needed and only thin foam shims were used to help get good contact with the inner door and window frame. Were the original assemblers that good or did repetitive tasks just make for better assessment of needs?

    I, too have marked and measured original 356s and reset doors as they were only to find poor fits and the need to start from scratch. Very frustrating, but I attribute that to a multitude of minor or major wear factors in hinges and pins, strikers and latches and also that less notice was made of how things actually worked and fit prior to disassembly. Was there a droop or drop when opened, a nice "thunk" when pushed closed from 100mm out without a follow-through? Were the original seals petrified into a 'perfect' gap?

    A true 'restoration' needs to take into consideration every part and every interface, every potential need for a replacement part, usually a reproduction. What cost is involved? What level of "newness" is desired or affordable?

    Last year, I was given a T-6 Roadster to restore from a nasty core example. It came with 4 bent, twisted and rusted doors, 2 left and 2 right, only one with a "match number." It would have been difficult to get 2 out of the 4 with Trevor's (or other) skins and donor parts from other used doors. Deconstruction, blasting, jigging, assembly and fitting and the like would have been expensive. Would they be "Just like new"? I'd hope so, but I am not equipped with the jigs the Factory used, so it would be a gamble.

    Courtesy of another Twin Grille Roadster owner, my friend Ed Ek, I was led to an ad for a set of NOS doors. Ten grand! Still, I convinced the owner (of the car at my place) to buy them, as everything else front and rear, depended on them. Now, I think the client got one hell of a deal, as they came with both halves of the hinge and a new pin...a brand new reference point on each side of a difficult restoration.

    I'll deal with the seals for the doors and the top frame as I go, but always hate fitting those windshields!

    Bruce

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    • Bruce
      This should be Part 1 of your door chapter, when you and Jack write "the book". Amazing input which we all very much appreciate. Glad you are doing this before you retire, cause you will not have time then. For 15 years you have given me wise counsel - most of which I have heeded. The one I did not was to throw away the crappy rockers and get a good set. I have paid the price.
      Phil

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      • Budget is a driving factor for me and I have tried to save money where I can - but just recently I have been learning about "penny wise and dollar foolish". I purchased a 'second quality' front fender area from a vendor, for a reasonable price - discounted because of "small issues". With help from you guys it was made very apparent to me that "small" is a matter of perspective (OK - I am staying away from obvious joke material here !)

        I cut it up as suggested rather than try to use it whole, and I have the major portion fitted. Now I find the area between the headlight bucket area and hood butter is badly out of shape,it was sunken in by at least 3/4" .... What I should have done is bite the bullet a couple of weeks ago and buy that NOS old stock that was on the R site for $1750 odd...would have made for a better job but I didn't...My time is free I guess, but the quality of the work I do however, is challenging me. I will update my log shortly and show you what I mean...
        Thanks for all the support.
        Steve
        (& Tips and Advice always welcome)

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        • Finally.....an update! I got some time away from work. On to the more important stuff....my Porsche hobby.

          Before fitting the new lock posts I needed to fix the quarter window surrounds.


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          This is how things looked after media blasting and removal off a huge booger of plastic filler in that hole.


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          The inner ledge wasn't that much better and the crimped flange was full of rust.


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          After removal of the offending pieces....a big gap.


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          The outer ledge fitted and welded in place with a nice curve to the rear formed with a shrinker.


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          View from the inside. I ended up removing more the rearward metal due to thinning.


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          New inner ledge fitted and welded in place.


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          Edge bent over to capture the vertical flange. I'll spot weld this later and add the Karmann drainage hole as OEM. The more forward holes will be fixed when the new lockport is installed.

          Thanks for following.
          jjgpierce@yahoo.com

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          • WOW John, the fun never seems to end, Nice work! Is that another coupe project I see laying on its side?
            Justin Rio

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            • yes nice work john! wish my car was that nice lol

              Justin, that's a sunroof coupe roof clip!


              umm... interesting!....

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              • John,

                Well done on that repair looks really nice.

                Roy

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                • Too good! Could be worse:

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                  • John

                    Brings back fond memories. Glad to see you back at it.


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                    • Thanks guys for the support. I got a bit of free time this weekend before the Patriot's game
                      Time to work on the left quarter window.


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                      Bubba really went wild on this side. A big 18 gauge chunk of metal bent to fit over any underlying holes. Ouch!!


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                      He did miss a few holes though


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                      Offending metal and underlying rust removed.


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                      Nice fresh metal shrunk to fit the window curve.


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                      Pretty good fit.


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                      So much nicer.

                      The inner side is just as bad and will be my next task.

                      Thanks for following.

                      JP
                      jjgpierce@yahoo.com

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                      • Test fit the window to the opening. Ive seen issues there more than once
                        Jack (analog man from the stone age)

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                        • Nice repair John and very sound advice Jack. The spot welds in that old nasty lap patch really gave off a nice factory feel BTW.
                          I'm thinking any day now, you're going to have removed your last patch? Nice work!
                          Justin
                          Justin Rio

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                          • Buttoning up some loose ends like the cap on the left hinge boss and hanging the doors.


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                            New hinge boss in position.


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                            Hinge boss cap cut from a template and the hole cut to line up with the upper hinge boss hole so the antenna will sit straight.


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                            All buttoned up.

                            I've got a question: Are the hinge shims primed +/- painted before the hinges are installed for the final time? My worry is that I'm now fitting the doors with the correct number of shims, but if I paint them the paint will add thickness and throw off door to fender edge. On the other hand: If I don't paint them they will rust.


                            Thanks.
                            jjgpierce@yahoo.com

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                            • Looks good John. We are still twins it seems. I recently did identical repairs to the rear quarter window sills on both the Swiss Miss and a '64 coupe I'm doing for a guy from Texas.

                              For your hinge shim question, no they were not painted from the factory. But personally I like to put a light dusting of krylon primer on them before installation to guard against future corrosion. That light coat of primer, even though on several stacked surfaces, wont be enough to make a noticeable difference in the final product.

                              DG

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                              • On to the inside of the left quarter window.


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                                Just like the outer window sill, the inner also had an 18 gauge piece of metal welded on top of the holes and rusted metal.


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                                The rust and holes extended behind the tabs and into the wheel well.


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                                A really tough place to get to and work in. I had to turn the rotisserie over multiple times to get all the rust out of that pocket where the quarter window latch attaches.


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                                Most of the offending metal removed. I'm leaving the forward mess to be fixed when I work on the lockpost. Leaving the metal also provides much needed stability to the inner and outer wheel wells.


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                                A convoluted patch piece. The sill top edge is bent over as done originally to capture the outer sill flange. Then the two pieces are spot welded together.


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                                Pretty good fit....at least for MIG work


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                                Looking so much better. The rear tabs were welded in place to finish it off.

                                Thanks for following.
                                jjgpierce@yahoo.com

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