'63 356B T-6 Rebuild

[John Pierce]

Onto the next installation that I've been perseverating on and also dreading. Fitting the rocker, sill and splash panel will tell me if all the previous work I've done was up to par and in the correct locations with correct measurements. Daunting!! I really didn't want to go back to have to modify previous repairs



I thought I'd start on the right side as the left is much more messed up. It would give me confidence to see how to progress and some of the original landmarks were still there....somewhere.......underneath all these patch panels!!



The fender wasn't in a correct location either due to interesting patches.



This is what was left of the original metal after removal of the offending patches. The OEM splash panel still needs to be cut back to viable metal, but I thought I'd stop at this point to get an idea where things are supposed to lie.



I previously repaired the door well, longitudinal, and installed a new front inner closing panel. The splash panel is conservatively cut back, but will need more trimming as the metal around the second indent is very thinned.



I then fit the previously repaired door to use as a jig and then fit the window frame to ensure everything lined up appropriately.



I then set the door gaps. Thank you Bruce for the advice! The lower portion of the front fender had been repaired previously and I'll end up removing it as the gaps gets too tight in this area and the metal oil-cans.



Once all that was accomplished I could then start fitting the rocker and sill.

More to come....

[roy mawbey]

John,

You are doing some nice work on your car, well done!!

Roy

[JTR70]

I'm still amazed at the total amount of crude metal repair that was attempted on this car; this guy was everywhere. Even more amazing is your patience and persistance to go after it all and do it right. Great work John!
Justin

[bbspdstr]

Justin wrote: "I'm still amazed at the total amount of crude metal repair that was attempted on this car; this guy was everywhere. Even more amazing is your patience and persistence to go after it all and do it right. Great work John!"

A matter of personal perspective on both thoughts:

Someone liked that car enough to save it once, albeit crudely but likely to the best of that person's ability/budget/time vs value.

John's work is proportional with value then vs now and also showing more skill if not more "like." I see it as being a personal challenge as much as "saving a cool 356."

Just as in professional work, DIY work is not all of the same caliber...and for many reasons and influences. I like to stand back and look beyond the disparate results and see the same goals. I give the previous repairer some points for even trying. I give John points for doing things so well ((over again?)) when it would have been so easy to fold. (Many threads here show the same spirit!)

Crude or expert quality work, it was still work. When John is finished, it will be "like new" when most others would have found what he discovered to have been too daunting, so it has been saved twice.

The point is that the same car is still being repaired or restored to the same end....pride and enjoyment. "Wants" without the "needs."

Justin, thanks as usual for giving us the ability to play show & tell (and philosophize) on your site.

-Bruce

[John Pierce]

Bruce, I really like your viewpoint that without all these patches the car would've never survived and would be in the scrap pile. I try to remind myself of this as a cut the freaking damn things out while trying not to swear! Thank you for the compliments. It keeps me going.



The quarter panel leading edge had been repaired previously so the edge was a bit off. Not a problem as it'll be replaced. The torsion hole lines up nicely.



The front of the sill was welded to the rocker so the splash panel flange would not fit. Nothing that a little cutting didn't take care of. You can also see that I had to place a relief cut in the 90 degree drop in the sill to provide enough movement to fit with the door cavity floor.



The fender gap had to be recontoured to match the contour of the door.



Stripped of the orange primer. I'll end up using a better epoxy primer once all the cutting, welding and grinding is complete.



I had to weld closed the hole for the hinge pin as it was off. I then redrilled that hole and the hole for the T6 cowl 20 mm drainage pipe.



The fender has been cut back and the rocker/sill fits well.



The splash panel comes with soft indents/pressings that need to be recontoured to give crisper edges like OEM. Also, the inner edge does not have a curve so it can be fit precisely. I've cut the top to fit my remaining OEM splash panel.



The inner edge has been cut to a nice curve. The bottom edge has been flattened as this edge and the outer edge did not appose the rocker and inner closing panel.



Things are fitting better. It's quite a process with a lot of little trimming and recontouring to get things in correct position.

Thanks for following.

[bbspdstr]

"I try to remind myself of this as I cut the freaking damn things out while trying not to swear!"

Swearing while working on these cars is a time-honored tradition. Creating new blue words is a healthy process, especially if singing on key is not. Swearing is OK, especially if alone. Talking to yourself, if overheard, can make others suspicious of your sanity ...even more so than what you are actually doing. Most people outside our 'hobby' think THAT is crazy! Swearing, therefore, makes us appear more 'normal.' Whatever that is.

FWIW, I have turned down NOS rockers since the better repro versions (with the more-or-less 'correct' arc) came along. Number one is cost, the other reason is what you are experiencing. I order mine APART and modify and assembly where the 356 demands I do. My latest projects have NOT been all that rusty and I can leave alone or reuse the sill, so I have been using the outer vertical panels as necessary. Usually, that need arises from previous damage or botched repair such as you are finding all over your 356.

Psychology:
Being able to exchange info on these cars here on Justin's site is somewhat of a therapy session anyway. In my little world, I find that swearing AND smiling while I work (which includes hovering over the work of others much of my day) is extremely therapeutic. I find that a balance of smiling while congratulating others (or myself) for good work and swearing about mistakes or bad work (including my own) tends to eventually get more positive attention and thus, better and more of the desired results. It is always a swearing at something, not someone. It is also important to leave that habit in the shop.

..........and this from someone who never heard a "hell" or "damn" from ANYONE in my direct family fore-bearers. I learned how to swear very creatively from friends early on and workers in shops where I've worked and in the military. My son, hanging around my various shops in his youth, can out-swear me! Wonder where he learned THAT? Must've been in that freekin' Frat at NYU........

Bruce

[Jack Staggs]

Be sure to test fit the torsion bar cover disc. They often fit too deep on replacement rockers.

[bbspdstr]

Jack, excellent point!

Left-over vinyl discs made from scrap headliner material was/were the original spacer/protection from paint-on-paint... of choice. Cut many more than two to stack as needed/if needed, slightly smaller in diameter than the disc itself and punch a hole in the center not too much bigger than the stud of the metal disc.

Funny (not really) that the original rockers usually had just one vinyl-fabric disc and repro versions are usually much deeper recesses demanding more shimming to be level. It's good to strive for only a slight round crease in the paint and the filler disc blending into the whole contour of the rocker and rear fender and be almost unnoticeable.

I know of no commercial source that provides such shimming, so I have always assumed the DYI nature of that fitting process.

Often, the rocker hole surround is slightly curved and the disc is flat, so some judgement of which gets straightened or bent a smidge has to be made. Sometimes, half of a headliner disc is needed to shim an uneven depressed recess in the rocker torsion bar access hole.

Don't over-tighten the nut on the bar on the inner side. That bends the weaker-than-original bar (unless that is re-used) and sucks in/puckers the center of the disc. If the (painted) filler disc is level all the way around with fingertip pressure, hold it there and run the nut in on the stud to the cross-plate/bar and just stop. See if that holds enough not to allow the filler disc to move easily. If flush and firm, you can put some peel-able glue or Mortite or Dum-dum on the threads at the nut to keep it from rotating and less rusty should future removal be needed.

Jack, I spoke at length with Ed Ek two evenings ago about T-6 Roadster "stuff" and he spoke of meeting you in a pleasant and respectful way. Someday, sooner than later, I would like to have that opportunity as well!

Regards,
Bruce

[Craig Richter]

Bruce,
And a pleasant, rewarding opportunity it will be! Jack and I are old friends, and recently have been spending a lot of time together driving from San Clemente to Hesperia (at least one and a half hours each way, depending on traffic) to check on the paint progress on "Lucky Lucretia", my brother-in-law's '60 S90 he has owned since '65. Our conversations are hilarious, informative, and full of reminiscences from two old guys who have spent so much of our lives messing with these old cars. He should write a book. You will love the experience!

[John Pierce]

Jack and Bruce: thanks for the great advice! I'll fit the torsion hole cover once I locate it



The front and bottom edges of the splash panel have been contoured to fit the rocker. I media blasted the metal as I really dislike welding with this zinc coating. It causes lots of popping and the media blasting will reduce the bad fumes. I also cut off the upper portion of the splash panel's two indents to make alignment much easier with the remaining parts of my original panels. I'll then have to fix things piecemeal, but it's much easier this way.



The inner bottom edge is bent up as OEM and then opens up towards the rocker.



Damn nice fit!! I'm so happy. The upper splash panel gaps will be repaired separately.



The fender flange will need to be trimmed back.



I can now use the splash panel to fit the rocker front flange. The line indicates the fitment gap and how much it has to be rebent.



The front flange is now rebent and the holes for the hinge pin and T6 drainage tube have been drilled. Holes punched for rosette welds also.



The uppermost metal gap has been repaired and the rocker is near its final position so I can now repair the T6 cowl drainage pipe.



I cut the drainage pipe back to viable metal and luckily had an extra piece of 20 mm pipe lying around from the rear heater tube repairs.



The cowl drainage pipe is repaired and cut to size. The middle gap in the splash panel has also been repaired with good alignment with the indents/pressings.

The saga continues

[bbspdstr]

"And a pleasant, rewarding opportunity it will be!"
I would expect nothing less with Jack....but watch what you say about "old guys" please! Ageing is like crashing a race car. Both happen to "the other guy" until it suddenly happens to you.....and then, if you survive, you have to realize that you are suddenly one of those "other guys," too!
Craig, I'd relish meeting you as well! You have already written an amusing and useful book. I have 2 copies: one is dog-eared and greasy thumbprinted...and the other is virginal! Jack's book? I'm ready to read it as soon as it's written.
Thanks, and back to John's topic before he gets as old as us.
Bruce
PS, I spoke with Walt Watson last night at length...just catching up. I knew he had worked for Uncle Ray when he was 15 and I was dealing (albeit long distance) with Ray back then but did not know his older brother Greg worked for Ray as well. In conversation, it was revealed that 15 year old Walt is now 60! Yikes! There BETTER be a book of all this by someone, sometime soon.....

[Phil Planck]

Some great input and stories here. Thanks Bruce, Craig, and Jack.

John, not "correct", but I put an offset on that front splash flange to provide a better seal. Hopefully the gap without the offset was not meant to be a factory water drain hope


Phil

[JTR70]

Looking great as usual John! Phil's last photo reminded me of that T6 drain pan difference(T5 too perhaps)from an A car. The leading edge mounts over top like he has it.

Yours is mocked up underneath like an A car. I think they had it right the first time to encourage drain flow but thats not how it was done for T6. Your car and your choice of course.
Justin

[DG58INNM]

Justin (and John). Have to disagree with your comment about T5/T6 front sill (splash pan/drain pan/whatever we decide to call that little flat piece in front of the door sill. It should go under the door cell/longitudinal flange, so water drains from back in the corner to the outside of the car, and gets to the drain hole. I have taken this area apart on several cars T2/T5/and T6 that still had original rocker panels and all were done the same way.

By the way, I am still avidly following along with everyone's projects. Great to see so much progress. My own '64 (the Swiss Miss) is progressing nicely too, but there is a lot going on in my life these days, and I just don't seem to have the time to post photos.

DG

[JTR70]

I would agree 100% with you David as I said above it allows the water to step down and out toward that drain. However I'm only going by what I've seen:

My buddies T6 coupe. A dry Nevada desert car with its original rockers. As you can see, the drain pan has been spot-welded over top. Completely counter intuitive but thats how this one was installed.
Justin