'63 356B T-6 Rebuild

[Don C]

Nice work John! I think Bubba did my car too, yours didn't come from Florida by any chance?

[Jack Staggs]

John, I have to say , your hand made parts look really well made. Maybe more so than some of the replacement pieces currently available. Before going further, I would likely fit the latch, lid, hinges and lock blade to assure proper alignment and operation. As my late friend Bob Greener used to tell me, "I dont care how hard you have to work!". The rear latch, with it's L blade is very sensitive to alignment, sometimes even more so thal the front hood. I know I harp endlessly about fitting and refitting parts. That's because I am often called upon to "fix" pieces that are welded on beyond normal adjustment range on finished cars. While stuck rear lids are rare, people complain that it takes two people to open the lid, particularly when the added weight of the rack is added. Other problems are release cables that are very hard to pull, and release springs in the latch seem to do nothing, and lids that have to be slammed to close, chipping the paint on the lid gap. If they do stick, it can be quite difficult to release once the engine is installed. Been there... Did I mention that there is more than one configuration of the L bracket?

[John Pierce]

Don, my Bubba's car came from Downeast Maine. Ahyup! Lots of salty winters.

Thanks for the heads up about the latch, Jack. I'll definitely fit the deck lid next. Good timing too as I just restored the rear hinges.

JP

[Phil Planck]

Nice work, again, John. Now you have me worrying about what lurks behind my engine lid latch. Have never removed it. On my to-do list, and hopefully not my aw shit list. Thanks for the tip Jack.

Phil

[JTR70]

Fantastic job on that bulkhead repair section John! Jack's right on the test fit. You can't give it the chance to mess up on you cause it will take it! keep up the great work!

[John Pierce]

As suggested by Jack, I spent the last 2 nights after work fitting the rear deck lid and latch. A good experience in frustration.

A positive is that the deck lid latch sits dead-on center with the locking mechanism that is attached to the engine bay. The 2 parts mate perfectly.

A negative is that the deck lid latch does not go in deep enough to allow the deck lid sit flush with the rear sheet metal. I've measured the distance of the lock mechanism from the rear engine bay flange (drip channel) and it is the same distance as that of an original unmolested B T-6. In other words: the piece that I manufactured and welded in place is the same as original. I'm able to fix the latch depth by placing washers under the locking mechanism to offset that distance, but its not the best solution.



New lock plate welded in place.



Rear deck lid gaps.



Washers beneath the locking mechanism to allow the latch to sit deeper so the deck lid is flush with the rear sheet metal.


Does anyone have any suggestions? I could cut out the locking plate and add 6 mm to it, but then it would be much too deep as compared to original. That doesn't seem like the solution, so I'm open to any any and all ideas!

Thanks.

John

[Jack Staggs]

Well done, and having fun! You may want to reread the very last sentence of my previous post.

[JTR70]

Good thing you caught this early John. Another great example as to why it all has to be mocked up as you go. Proper fitment cannot be taken for granted; they all fight. Going straight to paint without a thorough test fit is guaranteed frustration and heartbreak. I agree, I wouldn't be satisfied with the spacer washers either although on the decklid side of my car requires a whole stack of them to get the tab to reach deep enough to engage. I think this is a factory thing as I've seen many A-cars with these spacer washers on the lid side.
As to your predicament I would cut it and move it out the needed distance. Weather it matches the measurements of your buddy's car is irrelevant. Your car requires it out a bit more to seat correctly with that particular mechanism. Once its finished no one in the world is going to question or even notice that this required alteration was done.

Or, and maybe more trouble than its worth, you could cut the side flanges of the upper portion of mechanism and bend it forward then bend and adjust your tab approach angle? But this could also throw the whole thing off?? I'd have to be messing with it in person to say for sure about this alteration. There's my 2 cents anyway... Good luck with it!
Justin

[John Pierce]

Thanks Justin. That's what I thought. Can you send me a picture of your lid with the extra washers on the bracket?

"Did I mention that there is more than one configuration of the L bracket?" I did see this, Jack. If I turn the L-bracket to face inwards instead of outwards it abuts the deck lid itself and won't engage. Unless I'm missing something in translation?

I do need more advice from the experts regarding the deck lid fitment. It is not the original deck lid and the whole right side sits high. Do people bend the hinges to make the lid fit or do you recontour the lid? Bad ideas?

Thanks.

JP

[Phil Planck]

John
Sierra Madre lists the 3 stikers Jack referred to:
http://www.sierramadrecollection.com/cart.php?m=search_results&search=latch
Looks like the pictures are all the same. I would remove the latch and striker and figure out how exactly they engage and what controls the depth. You could then modify the square hole in the striker accordingly to allow it to go lower. I am away from foamcar at the present, or I would study this myself, as I once worked on automotive latch design. Bruce - where are you? Surely you have run into this often.

Phil

[John Pierce]

Ah, says the blind man! Jack was referring to the types of different L latches, NOT the orientation of the latches during installation on the car. I have 2 strikers: from a T-6 and a C so I've go the correct ones. Thanks Phil.

I spent a few more hours last night looking at this crazy Porsche set up, which doesn't allow much wiggle room. The welding of my fabbed piece is correct, so I went looking elsewhere. The latch assembly that is bolted to the engine bay has a built in angle. By changing this angle I was able to get everything to fit well. Much easier than cutting and rewelding.

Now to get the deck lid gaps correct. I'll probably have to play with the right hinge as it does not want to sit flush with the deck lid when in a relaxed position.

One step at a time.

JP

[JTR70]

Glad to hear you getting that latch alignment issue dialed in John.
If I understand your next challenge correctly with the deck lid here is how I addressed it:

This was a spare lid which I had converted to GT style. The hinges were also spares and not original to the car. The gaps were horrible and elevation issues with the lid fully latched pictured above.

easiest fix was to cut the excess height out of the rain tray which was causing the poor alignment.

Fully latched after rain tray modification.
Hope this helps.
Justin

[John Pierce]

Thanks Justin! Always handy with a little cutting and welding

That's exactly the issue I'm having. We'll see if I have to resort to cutting.


JP

[Jack Staggs]

Well, the easiest way to lower the lid up near the rear window is to fit a flat washer between the decklid and the hinge arm on the bolt hole that is closest to the REAR end of the car. It may seem counter intuitive to shim up to lower, but it works. I couldn't swear to it, but I believe I have seen a few 356's with said shim installed at the factory. Certainly on 911/912...

[JTR70]

John, here's a shot of my lid fully engaged with spacer washers on the tab so it reaches down in there far enough...