'63 356B T-6 Rebuild

[neilbardsley]

I wonder why when you have two possible engine you want to consider a 3rd.

Can someone suggest to me why you can't run a 912 engine with 6v? I'm not sure that is an issue. I have an industrial engine in my 356 on 6v.

[Phil Planck]

John
Good question and great advice from Bruce. My 63 is also a S90 with a non-original S90 case. It had 912 heads, original carbs, and NPRs. I would want to know crank data(how many grinds, by whom, etc.) cam data(stock?), carb condition(solid shafts wear out their bores by now on most). S90 bearings can be hard to come by if needed. Heads had very large intake valves(too large in some experts opinions). In all, I would tend to still go with the S90 if it is a good rebuild, as it is correct for your car. But, find out what is in it. For example, mine now has a 912 crank, as original had already been ground twice and was worn. Had to have the S90 flywheel modified for the 912 crank. Also, what p/c sets are in each?
Awaiting Jack's and others inputs, as I have only rebuilt 2 616s and am maintaining a 3rd rebuilt by Pellow.

BTW, I have found that diverting from body repair to mechanical is a fresh break during the resto process.

[bbspdstr]

I wonder why when you have two possible engine you want to consider a 3rd.

Can someone suggest to me why you can't run a 912 engine with 6v? I'm not sure that is an issue. I have an industrial engine in my 356 on 6v.

Neil, I would suggest that a "tired '56 engine" shouldn't be put into anything newer than, say, a '56.

A 912 engine can run on either 6v or 12v, of course, if the appropriate stands are used along with coil and senders that match the gauges plus the correct voltage regulators, etc. I am fond of saying "6v is fine IF all components are like new, including the wiring." I've installed a lot of new wiring harnesses in 6v 356s or even in a 12v conversion.

As for three engines for one 356....no matter what the choice of primary engine, you can never have too many spares!

-Bruce

[John Pierce]

I appreciate the input! I received the answers to your cogent questions.

1963 Porsche 356 S-90 Engine:
1. The crank was reground once and therefore considered a .25 under crank on the main journals. I believe the crank was reground at the Porsche factory due to the KD prefixing of the engine serial number. KD was stamped on any Porsche factory rebuilds. The complete engine serial number reads: KD*P*806887
2. Cam is a stock cam which has the P/N 528.05.102 between the 1st and 2nd lobe. AE is stamped between the 3rd and 4th lobe.
3. Carbs are Solex 2PII4 solid shaft.
4. New main bearings and new rod bearings were installed. The small ends of the rods (for wrist pins) had new solid bronze bushings installed and honed to fit the new wrist pins of the new pistons. This job was accomplished by a local machinist.
5. Engine is complete with all sheet metal, 200mm clutch (used), pressure plate (used), flywheel, generator, muffler (4 tip abarth style), carb air cleaners.
6. Not included: wooden engine dolly, bell housing, starter and all equipment required to run the engine on the dolly.
7. Engine serial number is KD*P*806887
8. Piston/Cylinders were purchased from NLA Limited (Brad Ripley) and are 1750cc Pistons and Cylinders
9. I weighed each rod and found them to be balanced as they were within 0.6 grams of each other. Weights were (all in grams): 507.2; 507.3; 507.7; 507.8.








Any thoughts? What do you think would be a fair price as it was not rebuilt by a professional, but by a home mechanic using Pellow's books?

Thanks.

John

[neilbardsley]

"Any thoughts? What do you think would be a fair price as it was not rebuilt by a professional, but by a home mechanic using Pellow's books?"

I heard so many bad stories about people getting your engine's built by a friend I would advise you not to go that route. Often it ends up costing you that the paid then new parts and the cost of a proper build when it goes wrong.

This doesn't mean that your friend isn't good and that no one should attempt to build there own engines but, in my limited, experience this scenario normally starts with the best intentions and ends badly. I can tell you, offline, of at least two examples like this which ended in legal action.

Maybe I've put that too strongly. Maybe you only buy an engine like this if you are happy to work on it yourself if something happens?

May I ask a question in return to those that know how to build engines if someone brought an engine like this to you to check? How would you do it without taking it apart, apart from leaks tests, and would you be willing to do it since you will have partially validated someone else's build?

[roy mawbey]

Neil is of course correct how can you tell the condition without running it, but I guess there are shops who would at a price run it up for you providing basic checks are made first and a WRITTEN agreement is in place stating its at your responsibility. The engine looks very nice its very suitable for the car.

Maybe if the seller went 50/50 on the engine test? These engines can be assembled incorrectly but I think I would really prefer that engine to others.

All the best

Trusting old Roy

[neilbardsley]

Neil is of course correct how can you tell the condition without running it, but I guess there are shops who would at a price run it up for you providing basic checks are made first and a WRITTEN agreement is in place stating its at your responsibility. The engine looks very nice its very suitable for the car.

Maybe if the seller went 50/50 on the engine test? These engines can be assembled incorrectly but I think I would really prefer that engine to others.

All the best

Trusting old Roy

John listen to Roy he knows what he is talking about I'm a novice!

[gkw]

John

It sounds like the builder covered all the bases for a rebuild. It isn't too tough to start and run that engine
the way it ts sitting there.
A Porsche engine is fairly straight forward to rebuild.

Gordon

[DG58INNM]

John,
Any engine you didn't put together with your own two hands is a crap shoot. That can be true from an individual or a "professional". There are local 356 guys that build perfect engines. There are big name porsche shops that build junk (I can offer some specific examples). The photos suggest a conscientious builder, and the information provided sounds knowledgeable. I think you just have to trust your gut on the guy. If it were me, I'd prefer the S90 to the 912. But in the end serial numbers and cosmetic details aren't that imporrtant. A good engine trumps a "correct" engine every time.
DG

[bbspdstr]

I just sold an early SC longblock to a friend for $6k. It could have been $10k if complete ("Euro" exhaust and all good stuff) and "retail," as I did the tests, out of the car, before it sold. It left in a crate yesterday, an AT*P*82xxxx* not a KD, but similar. I would be surprised if a KD motor would have an undersized crank.

Running an engine IS easy. First, get a bellhousing or a whole trans case to hold the starter. Fashion a stand to hold some gas and plumb that to the pump from above the engine sitting on the floor or better, outside on some old carpet or several layers of cardboard. A battery, some jumper cables for the starter and one for the coil...you get the idea.

A compression test, a leak-down test both done cold and hot are good info as is a direct oil pressure gauge in place of the sender... but the key thing is having someone who knows what they are hearing and looking at to be there with you.

Maybe the rebuilder did a great job, but at least one person involved pre-purchase should have experience. "It looks good" is not a criteria for a used engine.

-Bruce

[John Pierce]

Great ideas!

Here is a youtube video of it running. He also provides a commentary about what he did. Let me know if this changes anything previously stated.

https://youtu.be/bk4ho9rJp8w

Thanks.

John

[Phil Planck]

John
Has this S90 engine ever been in a car and driven? Will the seller offer a milage/time warranty with a refund(or substantial partial) if failure due to his rebuild? Another problem will be the time between purchase and install and drive, as you may still be a few months away from that. It does look nice, although incorrect air filters(should not be holes on top with plugs) and has late fuel pump, which may or may not be correct for that engine. Tough decision, but you are getting some good inputs to help.
Phil

[Jack Staggs]

Sorry for the late response on this. I like the idea of having a S90 engine in a S90 car a lot. I do have concerns tho. I can't figure out how you were able to weigh the rods on an assembled engine, per your picture. Was it completely taken apart? Were the crank plugs removed to clean the blind passages? What kind of crank? Competent mag test? Oil cooler addressed? Align bore and cam bore checked? Top end work only? Why? Do the piston angles match the head? Compression ratio and deck height? Flywheel pinned and balanced as a unit? Oil pump specs checked?
I'd probably sell that early engine to someone that's looking for one for a early car. It's not a very good fit for your car.

[jacques]

Hi Jack
these engines don't require any special treatment they are throw away VW units that any shade tree mechanic can build n'est pas
j

[Jack Staggs]

Jacques, unfortunately we both have seen a few that SHOULD have been thrown away...