Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[JTR70]

Thanks Per, I really appreciate it!!

Oh no, Like the rear skins before this is all just a rough dress rehearsal to give me a chance to figure out what's what and how to move forward.

It is looking more and more like a real car so close and yet so far...
Thanks again Per!

Justin

[JTR70]

11/1/16
I've been pressed for free time so these entries are about a week old.

Hood remounted for a test fit against the nose panel.

On this initial try it gapped out surprisingly well against the hood.

First noticeable issue is that the lower skirt doesn't seem to hang down far enough as the bracket mounts are clearly still visible. To be determined if the panel just needs to come down or was made a little too thin???

One more shot of that issue.

My OG reference shows where the leading edge should be in relation to the bracket mounts.

Again at least the initial fit against the hood was nice.

Fitment against the inner closing wall was still no better.

The original shows a very nice uniform fit to skin just under the trough.

Its going to take some doing before I achieve that kind of fitment between these two; all the while holding the skin in the correct "sweet spot".

Again being that I've never done this before It became a bit overwhelming that day. Eventually my mind came back to "hood latch". Get the hood mechanism functioning and build out from there. That calmed the water and got my head clear again. Next step was to harvest the original mount from the old wall. Small bites...
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Yes Justin, that hood latch can become a ' datum ' I guess. everything does revolve around that lid closure. With so much not at the moment matching up, I would think its very hard to get your head round it sometimes.

Roy

[JTR70]

That's the thought that occurred to me too Roy. Paramount is the hood latching properly first then move outward from the there.

11/4/16

Harvest time. Notice all the bullet holes; none of which touched the drain tube, latch bracket or any other vital organ.

Someone deliberately poked a muzzle into this hole and shot around all the components.

They all exit outward so I'm thinking somebody used a pistol to perform body work. Probably to knockout a high and tight dent in the original nose? Just a theory of course.

Begin locating it on that lip next.

Again, fortunate to have original references.

Before I broke the front end back down I took a series of mock up shots to check for oval shape, presentation and to just plain motivate me over the hump and take the next step on building this front end. Here's a few that I took.

Wanted to see this front end with the hood on.

That's the proper "speedster" resting hood height that I'd been obsessing over.

Added the drivers door to check for general and overall body lines.


Looking like a believable old upside down bathtub more and more.

rear fender joint is fugly I know but its not finished yet. Lots more welding, picking and filing still to come.

Didn't want to stop there, had to see it with the a W/S frame and a top.

I just love how the hood lays low in relation to the windshield and top.





few more with lids open

Front fenders seem to contour nicely right from the start. I'm actually holding out some hope that it will go smoother than the rear did.



Fun and reinvigorating while it lasted but...back to work.
Thanks for looking through all of these.
Justin

[Phil Planck]

Justin
Ref. hood latch mounting bracket. IMO, you want that latch, thus bracket to be 90 degrees to the striker. If you can get a long straight edge back to the hinge pivot, it should lay flush on the mounting plate. The latch design is very unique, in that both catches must engage the striker. If things are not square, one catch will engage before the other and you will think you are fully latched but you aren't. I show this way back on my thread. Could be why so many hoods flew open, and as Jack pointed out back then, the secondary catch on the T6 is not the best. Maybe the A is better - I know my PreA was. I had to do a lot of forming on that inner nose to get it to line up with the outer skin when I repaired that area.

Phil

[JTR70]

Thanks Phil, True enough, this is just the repeating theme of getting each side to engage fully and mesh evenly in relation to one another; like the door strikers and deck lid latch before.

11/6/16

Latch was set in its most neutral position on the hood and the lower mechanism was set the same in the base. This affords me any needed lateral adjustment down the road. Latch and mechanism where then fully engaged in a "relaxed state" pictured above.

Hood was then lowered down to let them decided and tell me where base needs to be perched on lower closing wall flange.

Once found I realized I needed to repair the lower flanges lip that had long rusted away.

Lip added and now set screwed into position.

I second guessed myself and these parts by referring back to this original example and spaced the lower mounting point closer to it. A mistake.

You can see here that the approach angle of the stud is just a touch too steep.

It still managed to engaged and latched but once I tried to release it The stud's shoulder caught a corner and became rim rocked and would not disengage. Fortunately by figuring out all this now I had easy access to get at the bolts holding the base. I would have been screwed if the closing wall was there.


dismounted the lower base lip and re-engaged the mechanism once again then lowered down as before so they could establish the sweet spot for smooth and aligned contact position. The base was moved inward about 2mm. It was a reminder that while its good to refer and shoot for factory specs; in the end they just have to be able to work together properly.

Still some wiggle room up top until I get the wall in but its now located and at least half way mounted.

Aside from that upper lip the wall seems to line up with it pretty well for starters.

Hood fully latched with wall slid under into place. A great relief to have a working mechanism.

Again these entries are still over a week old so coming up next will be the fender braces and buckets.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Roy

[Jack Staggs]

Re hood hinges. Justin, I'm going to beg to disagree that Speedster,D,Roadster have unique low hanging hinges. In my experience, and I have seen mismatch/changed/repaired dozens, there are only two types: early and late for all body styles (preA excepted). I gave Trevor a little clinic a few years ago and he posted pics here:
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30400&sid=4a41783e0fd8da7000c2118bd0e45240&start=15
The major difference in hood elevation is in the hinge pockets. Don't be temped to use late for early or visa versa. Pocket width suffers. BTW, it's always best to operate the hood in its full stroke before changing direction. Changing direction in mid stroke is the #1 cause for hinge ratchet failure, particularly on early hinges with the thick star.

[JTR70]

Hey Jack,
Far be it for me to question your many years of hands on experience with these cars; the following is just a recap of what the cars & parts available are telling me.

Agree, the locking mechanism hole in the hinge boss is punched lower on a Speedster. These coupe bosses where modified.

The modification was paper templated from this OG '57 reference car.


I was sure the difference was only in the bosses too. With my 20/20 hindsight I shoulda-coulda went an additional width of the bolt yet again solving the issue but that's not what that original Speedster was showing.

Matching pair of early (heavy gauge mechanisms)hinges where mounted...

Even after the hinge boss modification, no question the hood was still resting too high.

I spoke with my friend about this development and asked him to look through his box of hinges so I could confirm what he had once told me. Out came this red pair that were removed from a car back in the 80's. They are unmodified and from a time when it still wasn't en vogue to build your own speedster. The difference was more than subtle.

A new version pair was modified to match the red ones...problem solved. This hood seems to match up pretty close with this old factory photo below.

Other than deviating from what the reference car was showing me this was my only answer...

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

The situation regarding the opening height of the front lid is interesting. I looked at that speedster on the factory pic behind the coupe and thought is the scuttle any different really from coupe to speedster and that pic shows it so much lower that it could easily smack you in the head so easily filling up with fuel. I have really wondered if Porsche would have accepted that.

I then looked on line at many photos of speedsters and none show the lid angle when raised to see a comparision. Jack is correct the hinges vary from early to late so I started looking at my too large collection of Porsche books and magazines.

In a book detialing road tests of new 356 models found a 1958 Speedster GT road test when the car was new. One black and white photo shows the lid in the up position. The position looks exactly like my 1959 A.

Of course I needed more and have seen one other that seems the same.

Someone on here must have a speedster to advise. But even with your factory shot I do begin to wonder???

I could always photo the pic I have.

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Further to my entry yesterday, I glanced this morning at one of my books 'Porsche cars 1552 -1956.

On page 58 a road test from ' Sports cars illustrated for June 1956. So it shows the road test for a Speedster 1600. T1 I guess.

Bottom of the page a photo of the front lid in the raised position to show the space for luggage. The view shows the lid in the low position just like the factory photo you put on Justin.

So... Jack says all cars coupe of speedster were the same. Is it possible by 1958 when I saw the photo yesterday of a speedster with tge lid in the higher position the factory changed design?

More and more interesting !

I could possibly photo this black and white one I will try.

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

This is the 1956 speedster with which I would say has a far lower hood opening than my 356A coupe.




Roy

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Two photos to show the height of a 356A T2 lid.






Looking at that speedster photo you could not get my grandson then about 9 years old sitting on the petrol tank.

You must get that lid height correct Justin now before paint. Maybe you need more photos as Jack has such a good memory. T1 cars were rare though I guess compared to T2.

Roy

[JTR70]

You must get that lid height correct Justin now before paint. Maybe you need more photos as Jack has such a good memory. T1 cars were rare though I guess compared to T2.

Roy

I'm done Roy, that was dialed in over a week ago. Thanks for the additional detective work and confirmation BTW.
It isn't a T1 or T2 detail but rather a Coupe/Cabriolet to Speedster/roadster difference.

T1 coupe showing same resting height as your car.

Dick's T5 Roadster with lower resting height though maybe a touch higher than speedster. Might be just the photo angle.

One more old factory pic courtesy of Bruce Baker for direct comparison. Note the dark blue coupe's hood height.
Justin

[JOP]

Justin,
Sorry for my late reply.....
I was down to Hamburg and went by Prototyp again to look at some Nice Porsches.

The 1958 Speedster gap we have here is IF you put "the Stanley" from upper lid in open position down to the front opening is 26,5" ....YES it is in Inches It was easier for me to remember.
My Digital angle meter was at home...so no angle to give you today.