Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[Rusty Tubs]

NOS speedster dash top












Green primer accidentally removed when it was loaned out in the past.

[roy mawbey]

Now those photo's really made me sit up and look

For Justin to get that perfect line from bonnet lid to cowling really makes you think when looking at Rusty's photos!

I wonder what the remaining panels Justin has to fit will be like at the rear of the car?

Roy

[Drew.s]

OK Ric
It's time you donated one of your NOS speedster dashes to a good cause, Justin doesn't need one but I do
Regards
Drew

[bbspdstr]

Yes, Rick Mullin is close to my shop and I'm having him do certain things for me that I do not do due to lack of skill or machinery. Conversely, I am hired as a "consultant" for experience and knowledge that applies to 356 work for his own clients. We ALL need to be aware of our limitations.

I have used Trevor Marshall's Speedster dash tops successfully on "real" cars. Hand-formed over a thick epoxy form made from a Chuck Stoddard NOS panel is his usual way of doing most panels but the key words are "hand formed." One may be better than another by small degrees, but everything I have ever gotten that was not NOS (and even some of those) have need "massaging." The whole freekin' 356 line was hand formed, fer cryin' out loud.

I try to get Trevor or other vendors to give me the pieces apart, not joined, so I have a better chance of fitting with less hassle of separation, i.e. the dash top only of a Speedster where it rusts whereas the original face of a Speedster dash is usually intact or at least savable.

Justin is to be commended for his attention to detail, planning and especially his patience. Those qualities are what got him through a tough area that would have escaped many "professionals" and certainly confounded most all hobbyists. The patience and growing skill is even more admirable given that (and I hate to mention this, but I must) it's not being done on a 'real' Speedster. It has been a double degree of difficulty for that alone.

BTW, it has been a cause for quiet snickering over the years that even the original builders of Speedsters had a really hard time with the dash and cowl fitting and much more lead was used than usual because of that frustration. Damn, apparently those coach builders didn't have NOS, they only had NS....so the problems they had were due to being short a letter!

-Bruce

[JTR70]

Great comparison photos! That is obviously the dash you sent me and is now on this car. Interesting evolution on that one piece top. It has a speedster shaped gauge relief but is one piece like a roadster. Must be super late speedster? Note also the reinforcement plate under the eventual chrome base strip and around the defroster horns.

Thanks a lot Roy! There will most certainly be issues as the back of the car is built but nowhere near what I went through on the dash section. This is by far the toughest part of the whole conversion.

Bruce, I really appreciate that very nice compliment and I thank you for highlighting just how much work and time has gone into all this so far. Excellent point that this is not a real speedster and therefore no factory landmarks or speedster specific guides to help along the way. That has confounded me more than a few times along this journey.



Absolutely , the factory was very liberal with the lead; a saving grace for me.
Thanks again!!!
Justin

5/31/15
Welding up the left corner

Before welding resumed I mounted the base strip to help hold the cowl in a tensioned shape as the cap was attached to it.

Rubber sleeve was hose clamped on again for a firm alignment just to make sure before the area was welded and set.

Slowly working my way around to the corner while leap frogging the set screws between welds and adding additional holes where necessary.

Once the cap was welded I made my way down the A-pillar.

I need one more crack at this corner contour shape. Its too bulbous and I can't stand it. Many wouldn't notice but I can't leave it. The line represents the contour I want it to follow.(more in line with the A-pillar) I'll cut an "X" relief in the center of it and start gathering up the excess.

Just want that general profile to sweep a little better.

relief cut in and slowly flatting the area to my liking. I can final shape this with much more confidence now that its securely welded into position.

Corner completely welded and dressed with the mouth of the vent also welded and cleaned up.

A big milestone with this area all sealed in for good.

Repeating on the right side...
Thanks for stopping by!
Justin

[JTR70]

6/1/15
Right corner welded up and tying up a few other loose ends.

Finished attaching the column brace to the trunk floor. This is where having the ability to turn the car upside down is such a luxury.

while in that position I had a good vantage point of the under side of this dash. I took this shot to show what its looking like behind the scenes. Has to look pretty close to the original.

Corner welded up and door installed for a test fit.

The line is still rolling over to the door closely enough. I need to weld up the mouth of the vent yet but I ran out of Oxygen so it will have to wait.

The vent and just a few other touch up chores are all that remain. The dash is finally completed otherwise. I'm going to switch gears and move to the rear closing panels.

Since the left striker is basically to shape I'm going to begin mounting it and the attaching closing panel.

and of course the panel will need some shape work to get it to follow the contour of the chassis.

Beginning this new phase next. After all these weeks I can hardly believe I won't be working on anything dash related.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[John Pierce]

What a relief to be done with that!!

Looks like the closing panel will need a bit of fitting also Nothing out of the ordinary.

Great job!


JP

[JTR70]

So true, At this point I'd feel like something was really wrong if the part just fell into place. Thanks again John!

6/2/15
Prepping and rough fitment of left closing panel.

First was removing the remnants of the old closing panel at the mount flange. Since there were only a few I drilled out the spot wleds along the bottom.

There were far too many however along the upper part so I zip cut just ahead of them and began peeling the rest away. I came back with my grinder to get the last bits of it along the top edge.

Mount surface ground smooth and rough staging fitments of the new panel began. The striker was remounted and adjusted to the door then clamped. Due to the excess metal on the flanges the closing panel had to be clamped to the outside surface instead of inside as it will eventually be done. Good and close enough for my purposes today as I try getting my head around exactly what needs to be done here. Once it was clamped flush to the striker it quickly became apparent that there were more issues than just not following the frame contour above.

You can see that forward flange has been installed at the wrong angle. With it mounted flush against the striker the rest of the panel is completely out of line.

Once the bottom of the flange was released the panel was able to be moved more closely into its correct position. The overhang off the bottom shows how much will potentially have to be trimmed off.


While the other panel contours with the frame better its still squarely in its own way and will have its own set of fitment issues. Maybe not as bad though, trying to be optimistic. It was nice to see these closing walls up back here though. Even if its just for today. See the top frame mock up? I know, but I just couldn't help myself, I had to see what its going to look like.

A very crude mock-up but these are the tiny slivers of light that keep you going.

Besides I wanted to see how the base bow related to the top flange of this panel.

As the afternoon progressed a better picture of what needs to be done is slowly coming into focus and things are beginning to jump out a little. One thing is the relation of the top panel flange to the top of the firewall and striker. These should all stay aligned relatively close and as you can see in this shot the bottom flange starts too soon making it short. I'm probably going to hammer this out flat again and bend to suit. Anyway the plan is clearer than it was this morning.
Thanks for looking!
Justin
Correction:

I was looking at the photos I took of my buddies original Speedster and I have the panel too high. It needs to be about 2 inches lower to make way for that curvy upper perimeter surround strip. I better get over there study and take more measurements. Sucks not having a direct guide in my shop. I'm on the learning curve again...
Justin

[John Pierce]

Justin: at least you've got something to measure from! I know it'll be correct in the end.

If you don't mind me asking: are these inner fender panels made by the same person who made the dash or is it another manufacturer? Don't mean to harsh on anyone. Just want to know in case I need to order some for my B T6..

One other question: were the 356 gas tanks left in grey primer or were they painted black at some point? Stoddard sells them in grey while RD sells them in black.

Thanks.

JP

[Rusty Tubs]

Time to jump in again. These panels were made by Steve Hogue. We were the distributor for him at the time. Just like the dash, We presented the dash and these rear panels to Justin side by side with our originals. We wanted to make sure Justin and the client still wanted them. I did the same with these rear parts. One was so wrong, when I showed it to Steve in images, he agreed and did send us another one. The client had already waited for the parts and it took a year and half to get them.
Steve told us in February he would no longer produce these panels.
We no longer distribute panels from this manufacturer and are working with other panel beaters, using our NOS and original parts.
JP, both gas tanks are excellent. You'll end up painting them the correct black color anyways, so the coatings mean nothing.
We sell the same ones, and a lot of the kit car guys are buying them now.

[John Pierce]

Thanks for the info, Rick!

JP

[Jack Staggs]

Once again Justin, nice work. At this point, I would be tempted to cleco the entire rear outer panels on to verify dimensions. I'm sure its already in your head. As you know a few mm here or there can create havoc later. Good luck.

[JTR70]

Thanks again Jack! That is a great idea and I would do that however none of those items are here at the moment. Rusty Tubs is in process of sending me the skins for the rear. I'm heading over to my buddies place tomorrow to take a bunch of measurement and detailed photos of his car and I think once I have those I'll be able to get within striking distance on these panels confidently enough. Famous last words I know.

Hey John,
As Ric said, these are Hogue panels as well. As for gas tank color, your tank on a T-6 should be grey. There was however, a one year only "bottom mounted sending unit" version T-6 gas tank in '62 and it was painted satin black. Jack or Bruce would be the ones to confirm on that one.

6/3/15
initial left panel fitment.

Pounded the lower flange back out flat to begin the fitment.

Relaxing it allow the panel to hug tighter against the chassis.

Based on a measurement from my coupster project the top of this panel was right at 2 inches below the top of the striker post. I'll confirm this on a real speedster tomorrow but it was someplace to get me started today.

According to the real speedster in last entries photo the top flange of this panel runs near level. By taking that line a major misalignment at this junction as cropped up. The flange of the panel is now about a good 1 1/4 too low at the firewall.
Is the panel too low, set at the wrong attitude or is the firewall corner too high?? I'll have a better idea after tomorrow.


A long way to go but it was nice to see this corner sort of taking shape....sort of.

Here's a few fun ones. Before I broke it all down this afternoon I threw this old canvas that I cover my TIG welder with just to 'see'

A bit of imagination still required but this nasty old catapillar is slowly morphing into something hopefully beautiful.

Thanks for stopping by!
Justin

[Ryles]

Omg...this is such an awesome build, and you have to use these panels?
Hogue and Jenner jokes anyone?

This makes me sick for you Justin. I see a billion watchers on this thread, and no one can provide better parts? I mean, the Mullen coach builder type, are they just booked up? Too expensive?
Best kept secrets?

There has got to be a better way to get better panels. We here about all these panel beaters back east.

[JOP]

Justin, this is the first Coupster version of the hovering Porsche I have seen

But it sure looks better than an old Cab

Splendid work as allways