Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[Ryles]

Watching this build is incredible. Justin, this is quite a talent you have that many beginning coachbuilders can appreciate.
Why polish this turd?
I would never buy a part that didn't work or fit. With all of the parts available for these cars, does anyone make a part that fits? The obvious is that Steve Hogue made this dash. His ad on the registry says, "craftsmanship of the highest standards"

really?

He should be hired for the Mad Max car builds, not speedster parts.

[JTR70]

Thanks for the really nice empathy filled posts you guys, very much appreciated!

Welcome Ryles and thanks for joining us here. Very nice of you to say but actually after all my cutting and splicing its my work that is Madmax worthy. As misshapen as these panels were they both sure were shiny, smooth and civilized the day they showed up.

John, to be honest I don't think Steve has an interest in what's going on here; He's down the road and onto the next deal. I had one conversation with him on the phone to discuss my initial concerns then a follow up email with photos that went unanswered. More than the dash, I was disappointed in the lack customer support from the manufacturer (S.H.E). I asked the vendor,Rusty Tubs LLC,to follow up with the manufacturer Steve Hogue Enterprises shortly afterward: Steve stated that his dash and cowl are correct and that the fitment problems I'm having are because I don't have a clue of what I'm doing. He had seen the photos of the cut cowl and said I had completely ruined it.
I'll tell you, right after that conversion I was really second guessing myself and what I was doing. My only saving grace through it all was that I had this original dash assembly, with an original windshield frame with all the original related speedster parts and they were ALL telling me his dash was wrong. If not for that I would have surely believed him in that I was just in over my head. (which I still was) This is why I feel extremely sorry for any other hobbyist who attempts this without an original reference car or parts. You buy 10k worth of conversion metal with big dreams and tons of enthusiasm then the dash doesn't fit or look right. You call up the metal master just to be told you're an idiot and you don't know what the hell your doing. As a grunt novice myself I don't know how you'd ever get past that kind of criticism coming from an expert. The project would either go up for sale or you'd take it to a "professional".
Again, fortunately I had the real deal here to guide me. I'd have been frozen in fear and doubt otherwise.

Roy, that makes perfect sense as none of these panels are stamped. These are all knock out on a power hammer and test fitted over a jig. I know Steve if fully capable of making a dead on perfect dash but for god know what reason they are not. Who knows maybe an apprentice did this one or these even may have been farmed out to another metal shop to keep up with demand. This is why I am so curious if anyone else using his parts is running into the same problem?

Here's a pre-A dash he just did and has a similar shape and feel to the one he sent me. So this still is the standard offering.

Compared with this original pre-a dash the new owner will be experiencing similar issues. IE: the lip flange and contour etc.

[JOP]

Ohh, so now we have the answer to why the dash doesnt fit......
"I had completely ruined it"

I can not understand the lack of pride of the parts that you produce and sell to customers!
If he hade been slightly more humble and fixed the wrong things with it he would have won more guys trying to attempt to build their own Coupsters....more sales of the parts....

Maybe Im just old fashion on that you should take resposibility of your parts....
I had a similar incident many years back with a German maker of parts.... I bought a NEW part and recived a badly repaired piece of metal

I tried to take actions towards this guy but it did not go well.....luckily the guy is no more dealing parts that I know about.....he might be behind someone...I hope not!

Justin, I would really have been mad IF I got this piece of twisted metal shipped to scandinavia and had to deal with so many things that you have done on it to fit.
I admire that you follow the %<><>$$ piece and make the necessary modifications.
Keep up the good work
Cheerio
Per

[JTR70]

Thank you Per! Agree, a shipment back to Scandinavia would be a costly return on items this big. Thanks again! Justin

5/25/15

Left corner of dash finished.


Only able to get this left side welded and dressed before time was up. The very tip of that corner I'll close up after final installment.

As you can see from the original the factory very quickly closed this area with a patch flap which was then leaded over and filed to shape. Nothing fancy.

Working my way over the right side tomorrow.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

After seeing the methods Steve uses to produce part panels on his youtube video's I must say I was impressed. Such a pity he did not respond correctly to you on the items he supplied you. Maybe he does not feel he needs to look at forums but.. hundreds of like minded people to yourself have followed every inch of what you are doing seen the original stamped items and have, like I did on my original car taken measurements for you to compare. Hell, the supplied parts were a mile out in my opinion. Sure.. they looked very pretty and thats about all. For certain the formed shape of the cowling or scuttle supplied was incorrect let alone other parts you had to correct. Still don't know how you didn't give up on that.

Roy

[Ryles]

I tell you what...if I was in the middle of the desert with no water, and only had a mud hole full of dead flies and camel piss, I'd rather die.
Justin, cheers... you keep drinkin that sh*t cause no matter how much Ice and lime you squeeze in it that dude served you garbage. The sad part is he knows it. Roy, don't kid yourself, he reads this. He knows what he did.

How many others out there have his garbage? What about the long threads on the Trevor parts? More garbage. All these metal guys building Duesenbergs, rebodying Ferrari's and no one can make a decent speedster panel?

I would go get my money back. You have more hours repairing this crap than what it would take to make a new one.

[JTR70]

I agree Roy, what he does and can do is quite impressive. You can see the Cobra body being fashioned from thin air and it looks amazing. There is no question he can replicate anything you want. This is why I suspect these dash's maybe being farmed out to someone else??

Very harsh comments Ryles. My documenting all that I have had to do this assembly here is NOT to embarrass Steve but is intended to account for all the hours I have billed to the owner of this car. I have to justify to him why it has cost so much just to get this far. The time in correction has nearly eclipsed what the parts costs originally. You guys have said that I just could have made them myself by now but there are shapes and contours that I just can't replicate without the tools Steve has. I can honestly say the dash was about 80% there but getting that last 20% in finish and fit has been the challenge.
The analogy of the muddy pond is close; drink it or die of thirst. I had no options here but to move forward on it; Roy we are all in it too deep at this point to turn back. The parts where here, the money was spent and the fabricator has washed his hands of it. Trevors hammerworks was also not an option.

I bought this dash from him 15 years ago and while it fit really nice out of the box it was a Roadster version dash that he claimed was a speedster dash. He might be offering a speedster version dash now but I hear he has an 18 month waiting time from the order date. So as you might gather my back was against the wall with no other option but to make do with what we have available to us at this moment in time.
Justin

[JTR70]

5/27/15

New dash finally mounted on for good!

Been a long road but after tying up the last of a few loose ends I was able to mount the dash on for the final time.


Filed and pecked at the upper leading edge about as far as I am able to chase it.

Small noogies remain but nothing a good builder primer won't smooth out.


The next loose end was mounting the steering column strut into position. Column was mocked up once again to make sure it was mounted centered above it in its best adjusted position.

Dash was removed(again) then the end was seam welded along the sides as it was done originally.

Funky cock-eyed yet correct approach angle.

Column not perfectly centered under the tach and angles toward the left door as Tom McCoy was nice enough to point out. Thanks again for sharing that critical detail Tom!

One more shot to highlight the angle.

Dash was removed for a final time to punch in the plug-weld holes and to seal out surface areas that won't be as accessible for primer once its mounted.

At long last its ready to mount on for good.

Mounted!

Vent horns still lined up pretty good though there will be some adjustment needed as the welding continues.

I'll be laying down the first plug-weld tomorrow.
Thank you for reading this!
Justin

[Carrera_The_Kid]

Congrats Justin, has been fascinating to follow this process.

I have dealt with the frustration of poor fitting reproduction sheet metal also. It can be a real pain. We had to splice in close to 1" of extra metal on some carrera lower boxes to make them fit. Made you wonder what the fabricator used for fitment.

I have also been on the other side, reproducing parts to the exact specifications of the originals is sometimes not as easy as some people think it is. Ask guys like Brad and Eric Linden, it can be real frustrating.

Keep up the great work, love following this thread

[JTR70]

Thank you Joris, I appreciate it! Sounds like you know very well how rough the world of reproduction panels and parts can be. Yes, chasing that last bit to make a part 100% accurate can sometimes require more work to execute than the new part itself. Thanks again for reading through all of this! Justin

[bbspdstr]

.....You have more hours repairing this crap than what it would take to make a new one.

Those that make repro usually don't install repro IF they are rebuilding a car themselves. That's ANYTHING repro...lights to body panels.

Rick Mullin (richardmullincoachbuilding.com) bought repro parts from vendors like Trevor (and others) and stopped because he could make exactly what he needed if the purchase price of the bought parts plus the cost of the time to 'correct' that part were seen as a balance that benefited the overall quality of the job.

Rick has 40 years of experience, the talent that is difficult to teach and the tools and equipment with which to create what he needs.

I am reminded of the old saying: "If your intent is for 'good, fast and cheap'......you'll have to be satisfied with picking two out of three."

[Ryles]

I'll take number one of the three. "good". Rick Mullin, you're hired. make us some real dash panels.

Clearly Steve Hogue nor Trevor's parts are good enough for a real car.

I wasn't trying to come across so harsh Justin, and I appreciate you trying to stay some what inline and show what a nice guy you are.

I'd still would have asked for a refund and send that sh*t back. That stuff is fun for a race car or some kind of outlaw.

You point out that he's building a Cobra & making parts out of thin air, what is your comparison?

So you can have pretty tools, but knowing how to use them is a different story.

I'll stop beating the dead horse. I think the reproduction panels were shotty, and saying they were 80% there is about right.

Im a 911 guy and love the 356. The coupster stories inspired me, and this a learning curve with all this metal stuff.

Wasn't trying t offend, but calling things like I see it.


Aerosmith - Dude (Looks Like A Lady) - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf0oXY4nDxE

[911quest]

Wow!! Justin its looking great.. Almost makes us mortals believe its possible.

[JTR70]

So true Bruce! I wish I had a guy like Rick closer to me out here. You're lucky; take full advantage

No Worries Ryles. Part of this sites mission is a place to express freely both the good and the bad. Sending it back was simply a luxury we did not have as there were no other options. As free market capitalist this proof positive that competition and choice are always best for the consumer. Had I had more good viable options available this stuff certainly would have gone back forcing him to produce a better product or lose out to a competitor making a "better mouse trap". But this is not the case currently so you're forced to take whatever is being served or nothing.

Hey Tony, As a mere metal mortal I thank you!

5/28/15

Some welding and test fitting along the way.


Once a few plug welds were laid down on the center of the cap I thought now might be a good time to remount the hood and check the body contour.

The line remains consistent enough.

one more..

A test fit of the base frame was next.


Cowl profile runs consistent enough with the base. The corners will be tricky but its all still within striking distance.

Left door was mounted next so I could get a better idea of the general body shape that's slow happening.

Getting more speedster like all the time. With this bit of confirmation I can continue welding the cap with confidence.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[Rusty Tubs]

Justin, these are the images we spoke about.
New Old Stock vs repro.