Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[Jack Staggs]

Justin, I would recommend fitting the cowl with sheet metal screws and/or some spot welds, then installing the entire complete windshield assembly, with a disposable well worn Speedster glass before any welding. I have heard horror stories requiring multiple pieces of glass before finding a solution that does not result in breakage. I've mostly been fortunate in this, but I did have a cab windshield crack once after just sitting out in the sun for a few hours after a successful installation of the original glass. Bummer!
I also would drill the holes for the wiper shafts at that time. I use the Wolfsburg West oval window grommets for the Speedster shafts.
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111955261
I find these to be a very good fit, only requiring a little trimming where the grommet fits up to the chrome lower windshield support strip that you have shown in your photos. The grommet butts up to the support strip on original cars.
I hope this helps. Nice work as usual, BTW.

[bbspdstr]

Justin
You have much more patience than I would with that repro part. Fortunately you had a lot of other parts to compare with which most of us do not. Looking forward to the finished panel. Lots of hard work so far.

Phil, it is difficult for me to imagine not having examples at hand to use for reference and just as hard to imagine working by myself without help. It's been over 40 years since I've had to do that, so as far as 356s go, I've been spoiled.
"Other" cars have come to me and during the restoration process I would occasionally feel like a fish out of water while I learned and researched those, so I stopped losing time and money by sending the owners of those Brit, Italian or 'Merican cars to shops that specialize in those brands.
With help I don't work as hard physically but do work harder mentally, as we check each other and push each other and I have to always focus on the best final result by way of the least expensive and fastest means so I can 'sell' the expense.

Bruce
You are scaring me with all the parts fitting during assembly. Fortunately I will be using very few repro parts, as Foam Car will have some patina with many original parts. My problem will be fitting many original parts to my body repair(rust and accident). Good time to start checking my door handles and tail lites.

Phil

Phil, "dry fitting" parts is important. It's been noted that an original part onto a repro body panel is no different than a repro part going on an original body panel. Even the Factory had quantity selection possibilities or when the best fitting part was finally chosen by the person doing that same job every day, it wouldn't have needed to be number-stamped.
You did a LOT of work on the front sheetmetal....try the turn signal units to be sure they don't have a case of EDTS (exaggerated droopy tit syndrome)......and please don't ask how I know to look for that BEFORE painting....

Happy mid-holidays,
-Bruce

[JTR70]

Thanks John! This part was very pricey and I can only assume it was fitted to his buck before it left? Ric at Rusty tubs is aware. I did put in a call to Steve as a courtesy to make sure "Okay, is this part correct?" before I posted or cut on this panel and to discuss the preliminary issues I was having with it. His answer was yes, and his pattern was from a '55 speedster and they all vary and used lead to fix the discrepancies. I left it at "okay". Several days later I realized it was also short as well. I sent an email with photos describing all that was happening and well over a week has passed with no response. Since I've cut and altered it I can only assume I am now on my own. This is were all the patience comes from Phil, I have no other options, the money has been spent so I have to make it work which by the passing session I'm feeling more and more confident that it will.
Thank you Roy! You're so right, anyone without an original dash for reference would be frozen with uncertainty. Hopefully this thread might help out a bit.

Per, as the days have passed a mental picture is forming...

When I sight marked the rear flanges even (through the tension rod hole) with one another...


Here is where the new piece falls short. Lead mount flange lays almost perfectly in line to the original hood jamb's edge. I believe this was a simple mistake of the "bending scribe line" accidentally becoming the cut line.

Thanks for that Link Jack! No better advice on that. It would be absolute suicide to weld up fully any part of this before all of these various planets have aligned completely. Cracking windshields was the first word of warning from my buddy here in town back in '00 when I was dreaming about doing my first conversion.

It was my primary concern when I did my car. This cracked unit went in first followed by a new one with no damage once fully synched down BUT only time and a few miles will tell me if it was right or not. I still have this cracked windshield on hand when the day comes to begin building the mounts for this project. Thanks again you guys!! Happy New Year! Justin

[JTR70]

1/1/15
Begin re-profiling cowl

The original dash and base strip are my guides but the mounted lower W/S frame is also going to double as my holding jig as I begin tacking the rear flange beginning at the center.

This strip is not original to this dash so I mounted it on for the first time just to be sure all the holes lined up before making a paper template of the hole locations.

Strip removed and new cowl carefully located and clamped into position on the old dash in preparation for some hole marking and eventual drilling.

Hole template carefully overlaid on the new cowl to begin marking the holes. I spent a great deal of time making sure I had everything lined up as closely as possible.

Center holes were drilled and the chrome strip was mounted for the first time. The loose skin sections were easily taken up tightly against the base for a really nice flush fit in the middle here. I was so relieved to see this promising development.

Ready to lay down a quick tack-weld next to the base here.

So far so good..

Shaved-off the excess height on the flange top to bring it to even with the skin and began tacking it up.

Center of the rear flange all tacked up establishing the skins new profile.

A quick test on the car.

Sucking up this corner profile was next.

Right side corner section was drilled for holes and also synched up to the profile of the W/S base strip. Aside from adding the new flange it also must allow enough clearance for the eventual defroster vent. A little trimming and reshape would be required first.

The opposite horn inverted here to show the clearance needed underneath once its all over.

Test fitments in the car with the rubber collar would be next to make sure its on track.

Everything is ever so slowly beginning to fit together.

Doesn't seem like very much but in reality there is a lot going on all at once.

oh yeah, and the skin profile is also getting there.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[JOP]

Justin, you are off to a good start this year
Im glad Im not stuck with this piece of cowling......atleast you have a good guide to get it all right.
But it sure is ALOT of extra work to make it fit......sure all replacements panels need work on them even though some think it is just buy the correct panel and tack into place....and maybe a pound or two of bondo

[DG58INNM]

Hi Justin,
Happy New Year to you. Have been enjoying watching your continued progress. Even though my posts have been scarce the past few months, I still follow along religiously. My, that cowl panel is a challenge! My guess is that the "55 Speedster" that served as a pattern was made from fiberglass. That exaggerated curvature across the cowl and fender tops is apparent on a lot of the plastic replicas out there. Still, I'm sure you will win the battle, clever son-of-a-gun that you are.
Take care,
DG

[John Pierce]

Justin,

Great start to the New Year! You are correct: there are so many little things that all have to come together correctly to get a good fit. It is looking SO much better. That's great insight from DG. I would love to hear what your parts supplier thinks and if they are going to modify the mold for the future. Very frustrating on your part.

Great job!

JP

[Rusty Tubs]

Key word, parts supplier. As Justin's primary in house supplier, we have been through lengthy discussions with Steve, the manufacturer named early in this thread, in hopes to find some resolution to the discrepancies found in this part. We've supplied dashes from others in the past and will not sell them again.
Hoping third time is the charm. We do have stock and NOS SPEEDSTER DASHES to compare these hand made replicas, but actual stamped panels will be a whole yet from our parts.
Until then, it is in Justin's capable hands to fix it & our hands to bring the best that's out there, right here and now.

[John Pierce]

Ric,

I didn't mean to insult you. I don't know WHERE these parts are made or WHO makes them. I was pointing out the very obvious problems with these parts. I have enough problems fitting the parts from other manufacturers that don't fit on my car. I'm not a professional restorer and my biggest gripe is that these parts do cost a lot, and for that price I would've hoped that they would fit better especially with all the technology out there.

Bottom line: not a jab against you.

JP

[Rusty Tubs]

No big deal, didn't mean to sound poked at all.Usual forum format, No bad tones intended in that post. we've been bummed since it arrived and quietly working behind the scenes to see what we can do to get it right w the manufacturer. Justin and I chat daily over this, and are working on finding solutions. He has tried the direct approach w the manufacturer as we're all friends.
While most parts guys distribute from the usual suppliers, I'll stock most anything 356 related, but when it doesn't work, I wont exercise you or I.
The client wants the car done. There were no other options on the fly and we waited over a year for multiple panel sets. We are working with a variety of potential companies to stamp out scanned Parts.

[JTR70]

So true Per, they all need to be made to fit and some require a lot more work than others.

Happy New Year to you David! Thank you, I appreciate you checking back on occasion. Nice that you're back to messaging your old Swedish gal.
I'm not sure what happened with the profile shape of this part, maybe an apprentice got too carried away??Thanks again!

Thank you John, Good Point, these parts are very expensive so one would tend to believe that they should line right up but as you well know by now that's not the reality of the 356 world. These cars and their new parts all put up a fight!

Thanks Ric, and Thanks for all the support in rounding up the necessary parts needed for this project. I think everyone understands that as a vendor and not a direct manufacture a lot of this stuff is simply out of your control but you do make great efforts to correct the problems as they arise so thanks again!

1/3/15
Right side tacked

New flange tacked into position

Ample room for the vent. To follow the original dash I had to tighten the turn at the outer corner which required a sliver filler for the skin as well. I'll TIG this in the rest of the way which will make for a lot of needed practice.

Chrome strip removed and test fitted in its new relaxed shape.


Still a small gap in this corner but it can easily be clamped up into position. Whats also happening is this area is "oil canning" a bit but I should be able to stabilize that once the old forward section goes on.

Onto the left side next.

I'm catching small glimpses which is encouraging that I'm on the right track. Thanks once again you guys and Happy New year to you all!
Justin

[JTR70]

1/5/14
Left vent and begin TIG-welding cowl

Began cutting the relief to clear the left vent opening.

This side encroaches a lot more toward the center so I had to cut much deeper.

The flange run on this side swings a lot wider giving the illusion that the chrome strip is on crooked; but its not, I went over that quite carefully. This deeper cut was also much needed confirmation that both the strip and cowl are oriented to the original dash correctly and that it is just the rear flange profile that is out.

Inner section now opened up but now tightening the outer run profile with a sliver section as I did to the other side to match the original.


Mock-up with vent. New skin sliver tacked on.

New flange section tacked setting the desired skin profile with the windshield base.

Test fit. Cowl hugs the profile of the lower base with the dash flange now within clamping distance. This gap is to do only with the dash cap since it now conforms to the chrome base.

dash cap will have to be trim profiled to fit next to the base but I wanted to show how close mating areas are running with these two pieces.

Its fitting more and more like the original dash. Can't tell you what a relief it was to see this.

Quick relaxed fit without the chrome base holding tension.

Needed the TIG welder now so I made the final push to get the mount frame complete to get the cooler up and out of the way of the power cord.

While I was at it I flushed the tank and cleaned the inside of the unit.

Its been a few weeks so I was back on the learning curve with this welder again.

Eventually felt okay enough to take the plunge and move onto the cowl flange.

Even though the bead uniformity isn't there quite yet I was so excited with the heat penetration and minimal distortion.

I was still in "MIG-Mode" and unwittingly kept adding rod where I really didn't need it. Even though it was a little thick with a few out-gassing holes I still love it over a MIG weld bead! Its not hard and brittle like a MIG weld and it grindings and dress down so easily in comparison. A superior bond all around.

As you can see by this last run I began figuring out that you don't have to always add rod. You can just fuse the two together and push forward until it won't close then add some rod and push the material forward some more. Maybe after about 100 feet of welding I might be able to dialed it in without all the holes. Anyway I love and am so excited about what this machine can potentially do! More practice with the rest of this rear flange tomorrow. Thanks for stopping by! Justin

[JOP]

Metal Meister Justin, You are doing a good job to curb that wild cowl.
It is looking like its coming into right position.
/Per

[JTR70]

Thank you very much Per! For a hack like me this has definitely pushed my boundries. To be honest I wasn't sure how it was going to shape out. With each new required cut came more anxiety and uncertainty Its still along ways from home but I'm thinking its going to workout.
Thanks again for the nice response, its always appreciated!
Justin

[Tony G]

Thanks John! This part was very pricey and I can only assume it was fitted to his buck before it left? Ric at Rusty tubs is aware. I did put in a call to Steve as a courtesy to make sure "Okay, is this part correct?" before I posted or cut on this panel and to discuss the preliminary issues I was having with it. His answer was yes, and his pattern was from a '55 speedster and they all vary and used lead to fix the discrepancies. I left it at "okay". Several days later I realized it was also short as well. I sent an email with photos describing all that was happening and well over a week has passed with no response. Since I've cut and altered it I can only assume I am now on my own. This is were all the patience comes from Phil, I have no other options, the money has been spent so I have to make it work which by the passing session I'm feeling more and more confident that it will.
Thank you Roy! You're so right, anyone without an original dash for reference would be frozen with uncertainty. Hopefully this thread might help out a bit.

Per, as the days have passed a mental picture is forming...

When I sight marked the rear flanges even (through the tension rod hole) with one another...


Here is where the new piece falls short. Lead mount flange lays almost perfectly in line to the original hood jamb's edge. I believe this was a simple mistake of the "bending scribe line" accidentally becoming the cut line.

Thanks for that Link Jack! No better advice on that. It would be absolute suicide to weld up fully any part of this before all of these various planets have aligned completely. Cracking windshields was the first word of warning from my buddy here in town back in '00 when I was dreaming about doing my first conversion.

It was my primary concern when I did my car. This cracked unit went in first followed by a new one with no damage once fully synched down BUT only time and a few miles will tell me if it was right or not. I still have this cracked windshield on hand when the day comes to begin building the mounts for this project. Thanks again you guys!! Happy New Year! Justin

Wow Justin, you are definitely going deep on this project! Sorry I did not get back with you during the Christmas break but we had a funeral to deal with during the holidays and all of my plans changed.

Anyway, I do have an original Speedster windhsield that you are welcome to for your fitting purposes. In has a crack on only one of the layers but it is intact otherwise. Let me know if you can use it.