Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Looking good Justin. If I have learnt anything watching these final stages its never to buy any 356 from photographs! I have had to look really hard to see the errors you describe that have not a touch of any filler. Just a light flash spray and it all looks good.

You have to get up close and personal to see errors on bodywork. I reckon the bodywork guy its going to will appreciate the work you have put in to this coupster.

Roy

[bbspdstr]

Roy, Justin's basic bodywork will be fine if his painter is a "combination" person. Someone who can do "finish" bodywork and pre-paint prep. However, that is a job description that is fading away in the average bodyshop, as now there are "panel replacers" rather than "panel beaters." Now, most painters just paint.

During the many decades of old Porsche work I've survived, there have always been conflicts between bodymen and painters. Both want to blame the other for why it's "taking too long to get it right."

Those groups often included "combo" guys who could do both metal and paint work, so those don't count..... but when problems arose between the two 'specialties'.....I'd have to step in.

I had the "180" rule. If the raw (good) bodywork passing along to a painter required anything more coarse than 180, then the bodymen couldn't point to the painters as wussies or prima-donnas. (If the bodymen took it to any primer, they had to finish with 180 grit or finer.) If the painters got the car in 180, they could only point fingers if real issues were found in the bodywork that required re-work.....however, the painter was the last QC and responsible for the ultimate smooth paint work, no matter what.

The actual painting is "about 4 hours of fun" after masking and cleaning the primer base. Guys would fight over who got to do the painting! I did my share. I was thrilled to see a 356 2 weeks ago that I painted in 1979! Faded but it sure made me feel good! RM acrylic enamel with a DRX additive that allowed sanding and polishing not that long after the squirt.



Most painters don't like the nibbing or wet-sanding and polishing very much but most will do that last step. However......

I have found a "detailer" who actually LIKES the last step and is VERY good at it, so that is money well spent.

-Bruce

[roy mawbey]

Bruce, You are so right. I just assumed he would be doing the leading and finishing before spray work. Just like I did myself. For sure not everyone has that ability or the interest in doing that. I liked the leading work finally after nearly tearing my hair out perfecting the process.

Roy

[JTR70]

Interesting evolution of "production" body shops these days Bruce. Sounds a bit like the medical field; all mostly specialists then sub specialists on top of that. Yeah, a combo guy is what I'm aiming for. I'm getting the body close enough where no more welding should be required but at worst case it might need only some slight adjustment. Also too, if the body man doesn't chase it and goes straight to mud from where I left off it won't require an absolute obscene amount of filler to be perfect. All the while not taking too long to get it there. A real balancing act for sure. That Roadster has held up beautifully over these almost 40 years and is a true testament to the quality of your work.

8/9/17
Left rear quarter panel joint. Last one!


Welded up the last stretch of the apron and ready to begin some planishing.

Like the right side working from the bottom upward.

This area went just a bit easier than the right side did.

However the next portion above it is where the trade off is.

All but set on this first section of the joint.

My contour discrepancies on this side where much worse than the right. I had put a few relief cuts on the fender side to soften the transition to the tail but I ended up with some severe flat and low spots.

I have long span hanging low through the center here so I'll need some heat to help bring it up without being too brutal.

Tail light and cowl joint all stitched and dressed here. Smoothing out this next section of the fender joint now.

Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

8/17/17

Left rear fender joint almost finished.

I saved the worst for last as the shape contours at this junction where most inconsistent from tail to fender. I put several relief cuts in the fender to tone down the curve and bring it more in line with the tail section but I ended up creating some knarly flat spots in the process. Its been a process of reversing what I've done just enough to create a consistent line through the entire run. Its been hard to stick with for sure but as of this entry Its getting very close.

Top profile was really on the flat side in and around the weld joint area. Began beating that profile upward while making my toward the lid opening where I had to recut a small section and add in that relief profile that continues on from the fender which is highlighted by the marker line.

after several rounds of beating the flatness was slowly giving way to a promising curve on that top profile of panel transitioning off to the tail.

section next to the lid opening reset and contour line tapped in. It needs more tweaking but the welding is done.

needed a break from this mess so I moved down toward the tail lights to finish that weld joint out and get something in the done column.

Slowly picking, filing and heat shrinking as it went.

Done chasing this area.

Fine finished the surface

and ready for some sealer. Again not perfect but close enough.

Back to picking and filing the rest of this area tomorrow. I should have it and the cowl joint finished out shortly.

Thanks for looking!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Just how on earth could you estimate the welding and preparation time for all this work on this coupster? I just don't get how you ever ended up being able to quote for this work.

Surely its an educated guess?? I don't see any other way having followed this thread for so long.

If its all for yourself the work, then it is different as you can take your time as with the Carrera but.. this job has really opened my eyes to the problems skilled bodywork men face. Daunting indeed.

You are doing so well on this Justin all credit to you.

Roy

[JTR70]

Thanks once again for the nice words Roy, Appreciated! I think we talked about that subject a while back; I didn't estimate or quote on this project, I refused to. Mainly because I had no idea what I was actually getting myself into as this was my very first time dealing with a car/donor this rusty and also my first full rebody. I've had plenty of experience working on my own 356's over the years but they are desert cars. The time I have spent on them opened my eyes clearly as to just how difficult it can be to build and repair these cars correctly and/or to a level that I'm going to be able to live with. I also watched my buddy here in town (who restores 356's)through the years bidding and taking on jobs only to stop by and find him having a major melt down (throwing his tools across the shop) half-way through the job because it was going sideways for some reason. He go, " awe fuck Justin, I didn't charge enough, I'm lucky if I'm averaging 10 bucks an hour on this EFFEN- job!" I remember this happening on every one of his cars. I used to leave there thinking "man, I love my job, I never want to be put in that position. So when is project came around I made sure that I didn't. I was clear with the Doc at the beginning, this is not my day job and the work would be performed during my free time and since it is my free time if I spend an hour working on it then I want to be taken care of for that hour. Time on this car means time away on my projects. His safety valve was and is that he is always at liberty to pull the plug at anytime and for any reason. Just settle up and come and get your car. Professional repair shops certainly can't operate like this as they usually must quote and work within a budget. They're also motivated for the job to cover shop overhead, employees etc. I'm not in the "business" so I can happily walk away.
As you read through this saga I hope that I've been able to convey just how much I've been screwed with at almost every turn as nothing fits or goes according to plan. It fights every step of the way and You really have to claw your way through it...slowly. But what mentally allows me to chase and plow through it is that my time is covered. If I had quoted for this job I know for a fact I would have low balled it and been completely underwater. Corners would have been cut and development along with the final presentation would have suffered greatly.

Here it is and all within my quoted budget...Enjoy your coupster Sir.

At the end of my direct involvement Roy, I will tally up all the hours I have into this shell and post them. I'm almost afraid to know.

Thanks again!
Justin

8/21/17

Metal finish and shape completed on the left rear quarter. This officially ends the major steel work on the body itself.

Chased it about as far as I can given time constraints. My main concern was the transitional shape between the tail and fender and its now at a level I can live with.

The remaining rollers won't require even a credit cards worth of thickness to be smoothed out if the body shop decides to go straight to mud.

Began cleaning up the surface in preparation for a sealer coat.




I was actually in disbelief that this fender to tail joint cleaned up as well as it did. This area was really bad and I'm pretty limited.



All the contour details at a good fundamental level....I can live with it.

cleaning up the rest of the body.

Few more angle shots.



Ready for a primer coat.

Thanks for looking!
Justin

[kiwi john]

Stunning work !!
You have earned every dollar and a huge amount of respect along the way I take my hat offf to you Justin

Cheers John

[JTR70]

Thanks a lot John, that is very generous thing to say and I greatly appreciate it!
Justin

8/22/17

In sealer.

This officially closes the door on my fender duties.

As much as the rotisserie has helped it is in my way at the lower center of the apron. I have a few things to quickly clean up after the car is dismounted for the final time. The seemingly never ending loose ends.

It was a nice feeling putting most of it in primer though.

My to do list is getting very short with only three main objectives left. 1) finish out the trunk troughs and gaps along the hood.(next) 2) build a dolly for transport out of those pallet racking runs there on the floor. 3) finally cut that interior sub-frame out after all these years. Several small piddly things in between for sure but these are the last of the "big ones" to do before she moves on.

No more putting it off; have to face it. Back to trunk trough and gaps next.

Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

8/23/17

Trunk trough

The turn radius is just a little too tight as it transitions toward the fender encroaching into the hood. As I was fitting the nose I could have moved it out further to gain some space here but it meant losing the alignment of the leading edge/gap with the tip of the hood. A compromise had to be made and establishing the front was far more important so my adjustment/fix is here.

Here's how much I'll have to soften it beginning right around the magic marker line to both align with the fender trough section and create a gap with the edge of the closed hood. It of course won't be easy as all those stepped angles in the trough won't allow for very much movement so I'll have to section it to get what I need. That next...

Just before this I had mocked the car up just to see how the illusion is turning out with its fresh coat of felony gray on the entire body.

added the deck lid, top and WS frame.





Looking more and more like an old "project Speedster" you could have picked up for 2,500.00 back in the day.


No two ways about it, its gonna need some more lovin at the body shop but its within range.





Added the door and a side curtain just to complete the picture just a little more.

Because the skin is not perfect as I rub my hand over the fenders its slight irregularities puts me in mind of an original car body that lived a real life through 60's and 70's when they suffered the abuses of being just an old car. Not that this is a good thing as I'd rather they be perfect but it puts me in mind of my original coupe body's condition.

It was fun distraction but time to take it down and get back to work.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

8/27/17

Left trough and gaps

Left trough section that I had messed up earlier reset in best adjusted and gaped position with hood then tacked back on. It was nice getting this reinstalled along with a plan of attack on fixing what I had done earlier.

Middle section where I mindlessly ground down too far is set up where I can add back in what was now way too low.

This same area is also too tight against the hood so not only is it shallow but also needs to be moved out.

Sections fore and aft all welded and dressed saving the worst for last.

Slowly getting this gap opened where I need it.

Finishing up this unpleasantry here shortly.

Thanks for looking!
Justin

[Jack Staggs]

I'm gonna guess 3k hours on this one. Does Las Vegas have the line?

[JTR70]

So weird you bring this up Jack, being that this thing is winding down I just went through all my hours beginning in 2013 last night. As of this week I'm just North of 2 thousand hours. I'll give the exact total once its on the ground, mounted on the dolly and waiting to be picked up. Three thousand hours feels and seems about right but surprisingly, even to me, I haven't used quite that much time to arrive here. Its very close so I can say with certainty it won't break 2,500 hours (My involvement) but then again its not over just yet.

Justin

[JTR70]

9/2/17

Finishing out left trough and gap

Most of the left side run welded up and dressed for the final time. Along with the inner leading edge flap closed tightly.

New gap and height relation to the edge of the hood all within striking distance and minimal amounts of lead required to be perfect.

This corner is too tight and will Have to open up this turn eventually.

But first I have to relax the trough so it will align with the fender section.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[DG58INNM]

Looking good Justin. I like it in the gray primer. You've got the long edge of the hood gap looking right. Interested to see how you solve that too tight corner of the nose. As you note, with the flanges for the step, and the formed gutter, there is zero "give" in this area. Every Trevor nose I do, I find myself shaking my head and thinking "oh no, not again". Good starting place, but so much freakin' work to get it from nearly right to right.
Take care,
DG