Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[JTR70]

Thanks alot Roy! Yes, the digital camera has changed everything! The suspension horn was bent "tighter" holding the battery side wall in a back and kinked position. To release it both the horn and side wall had to be heated and relaxed at the same time. With just me and one set of torches I had to cut it free to allow the wall to be heated and moved forward back into its correct position.Thanks again! Justin

4/10/13


Beginning to work my way toward the back of this frame. Began removing this lower reinforcement strut.


Of course the lower flanged edge of the chassis under it is rotted and will have to be replaced.

Recieved my first order of fresh metal for this project. I ordered two flanged lower perimeter kits but I'll probably need one more before I'm done.


As stated in the other T1 to T2 thread all the vendor replacement parts are T2 style. Will have to correct this new piece so it will look T1.

Quick mock up...

Lots of fine trimming and test fitments to come.

Amazing how just few new pieces can totally change the outlook on something as badly rotted as this poor thing is. Thanks for stopping by! Justin

[JTR70]

4/11/13 Battery floor prep

As stated earlier, vendors only offer the T2 version battery floor with the center rib. We want a flat T1 version so I spent this afternoon messaging this feature out.

began beating this rib out and cut the blind portion out which was directly under the reinforcement. I kept the cut under the mount flanges to conceal the weld and for more strength.

The rolled rib stretches the metal so heat and a shrinking hammer were needed to get it all flattened out again.

Flat with just some fine finishing left with a polishing wheel. Test fitting begins.

The cleanest and most fool proof method for a tight fit will be to make a paper template first. The lateral rolled ribs are not centered and are too far back. these may get into the mount flange and will be close.

On a side note here is a direct comaprison with an original rib and the repop version. Not even close! This is why Craig Stevenson encouraged me to save original metal where possible. The repop stuff are only close faximiles. Sure wished someone would produce really nice crisp stuff; I'd gladly pay more for real quality! paper template tomorrow. Thanks for reading this! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Thats going to look very nice when you have finished that area Justin.

Roy

[JTR70]

Thanks Roy! I hope so...


4/14/13
New floor now trimmed, fitted and ready to be welded in.

paper template was cut to the new floors shape.

Template was taped to the outer surface of the tray in its best adjusted position. Then began adding strips of paper on top to created my tight uniform joints.

Template out and will now be trimmed back to these add-on strip edges to create my new line. After trimming the template was refitted to the chassis and am now comfortable to move onto steel.


final template was refitted to the new panel, traced and now ready trim the excess off.

Fits just as nice as the template did.

Joints are all nice and flush with the walls.

Floor has now been sheet metal screwed in for a tight flange before plug-welding begins.

Also re-test fitting the new closing which will be the next step. I learned my lesson while I was redoing my coupe battery floor for the third time; it is so much easier to get the floor in ahead of the front closing wall! Plug-welding this in tomorrow. Thanks for stopping by! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

That looks really nice. I have a question ( always questions )Just how many versions of ' Mole grips' do you own? I have seen so many types of grips holding steel panel work in place you must have a pair for every eventuality Those with the extended reach and spread are most impressive. I have some but not that universal. Boy did I need them at times, nothing like a good pair of grips

Nice work

roy

[JTR70]

Thanks Roy! Questions are what its all about. I don't own as many vice clamps as I should but somehow I seem to get by with what I do have. Those extra long pair came on that old speedster project I did a while back. The last owner forgot about them and were left securing something under the dash. They have come in handy more than once. Thanks again! Justin

Plug-welding new floor in and just about in.

[JTR70]

4/17/13

New floor 90% welded in and also began trimming and fitting the new front bulkhead closing wall.

Plug welding complete and welds ground smooth. I went back over this flange with my spot welder to recreate the factory finish.

Also gas welded were they did along the corners.

Same treatment I gave to my coupe several years ago. Welds overlap the flange seam at these corners.

Fitment and inital trimming on the new front closing panel began today.

Of course the lower flange is off and will require some messaging and maybe a few relief cuts to get a tight uniform fit with the new floor. It will happen just more time required. More tomorrow, thanks for reading this! Justin

[Manolin]

It seems with computer scanning and modern stampings they could get the metal right. They do for other brand classic cars...and they don't matter
You have a variety of metal color panels involved in this build. Selecting the right vendor parts from experience, where does some of the better fitting panels come from?
I understand oversize and trim to fit, but this whole ' not fitting ' thing of other panels...

I want the best for my car, as anyone would. The black panels are from Porsche?

[JTR70]

I'm thinking alot of these vendors are getting thier inventory from the same outfit and just primering and or stickering them with thier own brand. I have heard that an outfit called MAG Inc. is in the works for some spot-on sheetmetal. Justin

[merbesfield]

JTR70 Wrote: I'm thinking alot of these vendors are getting thier inventory from the same outfit and just primering and or stickering them with thier own brand. I have heard that an outfit called MAG Inc. is in the works for some spot-on sheetmetal. Justin


Looks like quite the project you have started. I speak from experience here, be careful not to start to many projects, haha, or none of them may ever get finished. As for spot on sheet metal panels, wow would that be nice. I wonder tho with these cars being so hand built how exacting are they all? I do know that the Germans were very particular and think that they must have been pretty close to one another as they rolled off the line. I guess I could watch "Built by Hand" again and look more closely at the jigs etc. The other day I saw a show where a company takes all the individual panels produced for the 57 Chevy convertible and assembles them in their shop into a complete tub, which they then sell. I have thought about this for the 356's. I am surprised that with the CAD programs available and the cheap labor in China that no one has repopped the entire tub yet. They are doing it w so many other lesser cars already.

[Manolin]

Lesser cars...yikes. Yeah, they are not the 356, but lesser is 'more gooder'
It is these le$$er car$ that are in far stronger demand that spawn companies like Dynacorn. Once this catches on, the process gets cheaper. CAD scanning is everywhere, it's the die sets and equipment that cost big bucks.
Kirksite and newer epoxy/cement dies allow these american bodies to happen. The Porsche 356 requires some deep drawn dies. A complex engineering feat.
Look at the black noses Porsche themselves put out...they are still not exactly like OEM of the 50's. They could have at least used the old green primer instead of the Certifit style black.
I bought one in Australia, and I am thankful they made one, as the handmade crap took more time in money to have the panels fitted and welded up. At the time I thought hammer formed panels were the solution. It was like closing time at the pub, so I was a lil desperate. Immediate gratification.
There are some serious haters that post on the registry and other sites about these ill fitting panels...having been down that road, they speak the truth.
So this is job security for you restoration guys...Justin! You will be undoing cars made with handmade parts and replacing them with good stamped metal.

[JTR70]

I know it Mark, these projects are really beginning to snowball. Well it sounds like the technology is there to really begin producing some nice stamped parts at a realistic price. I hope someone does soon. Justin

Front closing wall installed. 4/22/13

After lots of fine trimming to the leading edge of the new floor and repeated test fits this front closing wall was finally ready to be installed for good.

Though it took some time it all came together surpisingly smoother than I had anticipated.

The left side fit the poorest. Will have to use extra screws to suck this side down flush.

Some residual crash damage I over looked. The upper right side wall is bent outward a bit and may need a liitle heat to correct.

With the set in its best fitted position I began welding it on beginning with the right side.


Slowly taking shape. Will finish up the welding tomorrow. Thanks for stopping by! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

That area is coming along well, looks easy when you look at the photos different when it comes to doing it.

Mark is correct the punch and die work in the 50s and 60's was a complex job by Porsche to produce. You also need the correct presses to produce the part let alone the tooling. Then when it comes to multi progression tooling to perform more than just a stamping it gets even more complicated.

The tooling costs alone must make it necessary for the user to have a considerable order book for making it a viable operation let alone the use of the correct press.

A question: I have seen the info from ' Trevor's Hammerworks Inc.' showing full 356A nose sections. They look very nice have you experience of them or their quality? The factory name itself and the photos I have seen gives you the impression each nose is made of about 5 formed parts?? Am I correct regarding that? Maybe each finished nose tolerance wise from one to another is not as close as it might be from an original but would you ever know that if nobody mentioned it? Does it mean really you buy the fabricated nose and then you really need the fender areas back to the windscreen A frame
so that it all matches? Or do you have to modify the new nose to match the cut off area on the existing fenders if they are sound enough to use?

Sorry for going on, it interests me, the process of getting that correct. Never been that brave enough to even attempt that.

Roy

Roy

[JTR70]

Hi Roy, Thank you so much! I can see how these pix could lead some viewers to believe its not as much work as it seems. Probably because I'm not including all the teadious stuff between each documanted photo; you'd be bored to death if I did.

Being in the tooling industry I thought for sure this subject might get your attention. You are correct the new repro noses are built from several individual pieces then welded together. It is such a complex shape it truely amazes me how close them come the real thing. They can be fitted to work with factory fenders but of course it would all have to be meassaged in. If your working with a repro nose and repro fenders I just think you have doubled your work to get it all to look and fit correctly. I bought a pair of trevor Marshal rear speedster quater panels. The fitment and shape was so bad I ended up cutting the caps off and grafting them onto factory coupe fenders to save time and a far better end result. The new stuff just doesn't fit and takes gobs effort to make them correct.
Getting back to the noses: the factory noses were stamped from single piece. The photo below provided by JG illustrates it perfectly.

Can't say if it was done in one die or a progression series of stampings but a single piece of steel for sure. The head light blanks were of course die punched out but I'm referring to the shaping process only. This photo really just makes me drool !!!!!!!!!! Especially when you think about the value on all those pallets at 3K a copy. Haven't even mentioned the speedster seat blanks stacked there.. Thanks again! Justin

[Rad-Ride]

I like seeing the old stamping/assembly photos from back in the day. I should walk around my plant and take pictures from body shop to final assembly of the F-150 trucks that we build.