57 356 A mild resto

[merbesfield]

[quote="merbesfield" post=36653]Justin, I am a bit confused, which is not surprising given the length in time since work. I "thought" I needed to install all my cables etc prior to installing the floor pan. Obviously they were designed to be installed after for serviceability, but would be easier now. This is what I was going with. Does the tach cable have its own conduit? So do the other cables also get installed later? The main harness is still in the car and I was not planning on removing it. Thanks for helping me get my car and mind back on track. Mark[/quote

Can anyone give me a quick answer in the cables and stuff that goes inside the tunnel. Do I do anything prior to welding floor or does it all go in after?

The fabric covering on my harness is frayed. I tried to wrap it but cannot get enough slack and it's NOT coming out. So I have decided to cover it in modern split loom. It will not be seen and is a more modern approach to the protection of wires.

[John Pierce]

Hey Steve,

Happy New Years!

I installed some things before hand and greased things up. A lot easier now than later. Here is a link:

http://www.abcgt.com/forum/14-356-Restoration-Projects/14008-63-356B-T-6-Rebuild.html?limit=6&start=690


You might consider replacing the gas and lines as they're over 50 years old.

HTH.

John

[merbesfield]

John, thank you for pointing me back to that post. Helped tremendously to jog the grey matter. One question, did you install the tachometer cable prior to welding pan?

[John Pierce]

I left the tach cable out until later as it's pretty easy to install through the conduit.

[merbesfield]

I left the tach cable out until later as it's pretty easy to install through the conduit.

Ah, that is what I was trying to figure out, that there is a dedicated conduit for the Tach cable. If that is the case then yes it should be easy to install later. This is what happens when you take things apart and then stop work. I forget stuff, and I don't have a lot of knowledge to remember in the first place so that is dangerous. Haha

[JTR70]

A-car tunnels do not have a full dedicated conduit for the tach cable as John is finding on his T6.
If you take a look at the tunnel repair on the coupster you'll see partial sleeves on the upper corners of the tunnel running the length of the seat tracks. The loom goes through the right side but I'm not sure about the other side for the tach as I don't think the coupling bung on the end will fit through there. Bruce or Jack would certainly know the path it takes so I hope they'll chime in here.

[John Pierce]

You are correct Justin. Either way, I think it would be easy to install after buttoning up the floor.

JP

[merbesfield]

Obviously I need to go look at my car and maybe this will be more clear for me. Reading back through my own posts helps. Thanks guys.

[bbspdstr]

"I forget stuff, and I don't have a lot of knowledge to remember in the first place so that is dangerous."
Wait a minute! That's MY line! I never had to know about such trivia in my first 50 years...but welcome the challenge!

I am in the shop on a holiday, so what the hay, I looked. No 'tunnel-in-a-tunnel' other than the one on the upper right side in any 356 here but an A. (May be one in a T-5 Roadster, but that's all dressed up.) A T-2 Coupe has one, a T-1 Coupe and an early-early T-1 Cab does too. No "pre-A" cars to check. T-6 cars didn't have two, but all that have the one conduit on the right upper are carrying the wiring to the rear/engine (except the main hot for the starter) . For the tunnels that have the opposite (left) side too, I have no recall of anything going through there. Maybe it was originally intended for the main hot to the starter, don't know. Maybe right-hand-steering car wiring? Anyway, it was deemed unneeded with the T-6 cars for sure, and the C-2 here does not have the left upper tunnel conduit, yet is has many other anomalies in it's chassis build.

How about Alex at Restoration Design? I'd ask Brett Johnson, but he's busy with the early911sregistry.org's magazine, "esses." I'd go on the 356r site, but don't care enough to do do that. (Is that honest enough?) I know 'over there' there was a thread or more about "what goes through the tunnel and where...and where does what come out?" It was long enough ago that I think I may have participated....if I really HAD to know, I'd ask Brad Ripley in Reno.

That L/S conduit MAY have been something used for additional 4-cam wiring, but the later T-1 4-cam Speedster here with 2-upper tubes (L&R) came to me bare, so I do not know. It may have just been bracing, as it is under the seat rails. (A tube is the strongest structural shape, or so I heard in Industrial Design classes and why the 356 incorporated three of those from front to back halves of the car in a unibody design and Porsche got away with those being the same whether open or closed models....the coupe just stronger due to being 3 tubes covered by a a bridging that makes it a 'box' (over three tubes)).

As for the tach cable, the foam on the more original replacements, like the originals, I'll assume were to keep them quiet from both internal whirring noises and the possibility of whipping sheaths making a noise on the floor under them or against another something passing through. The abrasion-resistant sheathing also makes the better versions more expensive. It's where the cable is prone to rubbing against other elements, the forward section that goes up and to the instrument being just the black sheathing.

Edit: the lack of a conduit on the left upper longitudinal corner of the tunnel and that the right side conduit for the wiring means that the tach cable just is in clips/tabs or on the main tunnel floor, entering in the very front of the tunnel inside the cabin and exiting through a hole in the rear bulkhead large enough through which to pass the retaining collar on the cable end.

Happy New Year to all,
Bruce

[John Pierce]

Mark,

Here's a picture that I took of my B T-6, which I believe is the same for a C T6. I labeled the holes and channels and what travels inside them. The fuel line travels in the driver's side channel and the battery cable and harness travel in the passenger's side channel. The tachometer cable doesn't travel in any conduit as I initially thought from memory

I can send you the original .jpg if you'd like a larger image.

HTH.

John





Below is a picture of the light colored fuel line entering the left channel:

[bbspdstr]

Guys, John is the guy who is correct, I am wrong in my omission that the left side conduit carried the steel fuel tube. I made guesses and worst of all, assumptions. I need to stop posting if I am doing my reporting on what I remember or find now in 356s.

There is nothing I could or can find in "The Books." I looked at 356s that had been "worked on" prior to my involvement. I trusted they were "correct" and they weren't. I didn't dig deep enough before my prior post and I am sorry for bad reporting.

Feeling not so good about what I wrote and what John subsequently posted (with those arrows and labels I do not know how to create, either)...I braved the rain and cold here in PA and went to my out-buildings to examine guaranteed ORIGINAL examples of a T-6/C and a '59 A.

BOTH had gas lines going through a left conduit and wiring through the right conduit. I had to realize that I had not disassembled those that showed me nothing while in restoration and had not assembled one my-own-damned-self in too many years. I 'forgot.'

I looked at a bare T-6 shell back there in the dark, too, and it had the left conduit...but nothing going through it...as there is NOTHING going through it's (bottomless) tunnel. It's a valuable "part car."

On a positive note, this proves there are checks and balances on this forum and thank you, John. You were better at documenting perhaps due to having the wisdom to not trust a memory from months or years or decades ago as I did.....and I am better for that.

What was it one of the guys on the R forum used to say? "Back under my rock I go"?
Bruce

[John Pierce]

Bruce,

I can't remember all these damn details either. I got it wrong the first go around also

I write everything down as a month from now it won't be fresh as it was while taking it apart. Then it's: "now how does this go back together?"


JP

[merbesfield]

[quote="John Pierce" post=36722]Bruce,

I can't remember all these damn details either. I got it wrong the first go around also

I write everything down as a month from now it won't be fresh as it was while taking it apart. Then it's: "now how does this go back together?"


JP[/quote

I used to be very deligent about keeping my "build book" updated before during and after each shop visit. I will make a point to be better as it does help. Can't possibly remember everything. I went to the shop today bc curiosity was killing me. There is no conduit in my car. Only a hole. I went and looked at my cable and after studying it realized it looks to be in excellent condition so I will clean it and reuse it. After thinking about it, my car was only on the road from birth, 1957, to 1979, so only 22 years. It is definitely the original and the square ends are still perfectly square. I also think tho possible to install after floors are in, it will be much easier now. So all I need is heater cables and then I should be ready. I have new parking brake cables but my old ones look excellent as well so may stick w them vs new ones I have.

[bbspdstr]

John, I would like that rear bulkhead "checklist" jpg if you don't mind: bbspdstr@aol.com
TIA

Mark, inexpert in some things as I may have recently exposed myself to be, I still know that welding can ruin things like plastics and such....wiring doesn't like heat, sheathing on cables such as for parking brakes and the tachometer...jus' sayin'....and don't bother to "ask me how I know." What isn't there can't melt and even a MIG plug weld generates 2000*......your call on yours, but I put cables in after welding in the floor, just to be safe.

Speaking of gas line placement, I could just lapse into my story about welding on a later 911 tunnel back in the '80s, just SURE that the plastic gas lines were nowhere near where I was welding.....and found very scarily that I was VERY wrong and VERY lucky a water hose was nearby, a halon fire extinguisher and an asbestos blanket were inside that car and no serious damage was done. Oh, and I had better reflexes and ability to move faster back then, too. That's still clearly in my over-filled memory banks!
Regards,
Bruce

[merbesfield]

[quote="bbspdstr" post=36724]

Mark, inexpert in some things as I may have recently exposed myself to be, I still know that welding can ruin things like plastics and such....wiring doesn't like heat, sheathing on cables such as for parking brakes and the tachometer...jus' sayin'....and don't bother to "ask me how I know." What isn't there can't melt and even a MIG plug weld generates 2000*......your call on yours, but I put cables in after welding in the floor, just to be safe.

Regards,
Bruce[/quote

Bruce, going from memeory, it was only this evening, but my battery cable, wiring harness, fuel and brake lines are staying in the car since they are already in there. So that leaves E brakes, heater, and tach.

Correct me if wrong here:
E brakes are cables only through tunnel, so shouldn't melt.
Heater cable or wires are wires so they shouldn't melt.
Which leaves the tachy, which is plastic/foam etc. If it is in the upper left corner of the tunnel, I don't think my spot welding will be a problem. Being the expert welder that I am , I am pretty fast at spot welds and bc I move around the floor I should be able to keep the heat down. Plus I can use air if it gets feeling too hot at each weld. You do this all the time, but looking at the connections for heater and E brakes and imaging me and my bad back trying to connect that shit through those tiny openings...I'm not liking that image.

Edit: upon review of my detail pics I can see that the Tachometer cable should be fairly easy to thread through the tunnel so I will take Bruce's expert advice, duh, and install after floor is in.