58367 The $75 Junkyard Carrera coupe restoration

[John Pierce]

Looks nice. Your visors have an interesting contour to them

[JTR70]

Yeah John, as you probably guessed those are the original plastic inserts still in there. I thought about replacing them with new but all the repro kits out there for them only come in brown instead of dark green like all early Porsches had originally. (Only early VW's had brown inserts) As the plastic is petroleum based the age tended to turn them brownish. Some guys swear they were brown originally but no, they all started out green when new. You can see that mine are still greenish and confirmation of the original color from the late Craig Stevenson was given to me several years ago. So with that I've decided to install as is; lots of character though.

11/2/15
Sail panel prep and pillar wraps

added in that section of additional sound dampener in prep for closing.

this is going to be yet another tough area to get wrinkle free once all is done just as Gordon has warned about.

Finished up the right A pillar wrap while I procrastinate on addressing that sail panel. Turned out tight and clean. A lot of the raw shape of the pillar transferred through like the factory welds etc. but this is how it came originally so, okay...

I terminated and shaped the bottom to the mildly stepped shoulder pressed in the metal.

Began wrapping the B-pillar.

Have a question for Roy: ( anyone else who knows)

On your car Roy, Does the center section glue over the side panel sections of the liner or under them at the joints?

Also is there headliner material running along this bottom lip of the quarter window opening? Thanks for any help on that.
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,
You are a doing a really nice job with the headliner. I noticed your clothes hooks. I did not know T1 versions had steel, the T2 like mine has rubber versions.

The fitting of the headliner onto the B pillar and the quarter light window area I make this comment. I think the material of the headliner goes down the upright and then does travel along the bottom of the quarter light window. I say that because if you look closely at the 2 photo's the material seems to disappear under the red metal capping on the side panel. The rear end which goes under the red vinyl side panel would have been stuck down I guess all along to the B upright. It would help captivate the headliner and without doing that the red vinyl side piece would have exposed the steel body
at the rear end of the window.The headliner can be seen going along the bottom of the window for about 2 inches then the rubber window seal presses against the capping so you cannot see more of it.

I have only ever once had the capping on the side panel off the car once when I replaced the quarter light rubber seal over 25 years ago.. I seem to remember the capping was held in place by a screw and metal clips. So I would glue it down with plenty of spare to go under the side trim panels.

I attach 2 photo's possibly sent before of that area.





To me you need it just for cosmetic purposes really and to assist in being sure the vinyl side pieces will cover everything you need it to.

Come back to me if you really have a nagging doubt.

Roy

[JR]

Roy,
That is exactly correct.
That is the way the 64 coupe is being done also.
Dick

[JTR70]

Thanks a lot for the help and great pics Roy!

I understand what both you and Dick are confirming. What we're seeing is just the continuation of the B-pillar wrap; all set on that one.

What I was wondering is that if the factory continued the liner across the base with a separate piece like my quick example above? By your nice photo however it seems that there is not much of a gap between the mounted garnish rail and the seal to be able to see down in there anyway. So I'm guessing probably not; easy enough to add at any time after the fact though. You're right, there is not much holding that rear rail in place. Just a single screw in the door jamb under the seal with only a hook at the back just behind the rear panel.

Same question: Is there a joint along that center bottom run of liner just out of this photos field of view? can you take a pic of that area?
The coat hooks weren't steel but rather potmetal. Either way a very unforgiving object to put your head into. Thanks again for the help!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

You are correct you have to really ' peer' over the top of the garnish rail to see any of that headliner material. Only for about 2 inches or so can you see a small glimpse of it the rest is hidden by the contact of the seal against the garnish rail. I will take a photo. I would say if it were easy to bring one piece along the bottom half way, and then join up with the other end it would be fine. I will take a photo of that and the back firewall area to show you mine.

Roy

[JR]

Justin,
I haven't seen it mentioned and you might be too far along, but the windshield pillar, along the top of the door opening and possibly the B pillar had a white muslin wrap underneath the head liner. Then the pillars are wrapped with the headliner material. Perhaps the A is different then the T-6.
A lot of insulation has been put on the inside of the body panels. I think I remember your having on the roof underneath the headliner.
Good job!
Tedious isn't it?
Dick

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Can't see the muslin Dick was talking about without taking the liner off. However, that headliner needs sticking and don't quite see how you could do that easily with the muslin in the way??

Attached the photos of the seal to the garnish rail it butts up close!

Attached 2 photos of the rear firewall. You will notice a small split on the headliner in the middle of the first thin panel of the red vinyl. If you look at the next picture of the other side the same split is on that first thin panel. They must have put a separate panel in that back area to match up with both sides? Or that's how it looks to me!







[attachment]2015_1128 headliner engineinvoice oilvalve 005.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment:5]2015_1128 headliner engineinvoice oilvalve 008.jpg[/attachment]

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

The pics of the rear firewall that did not show above.





Roy

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Just realised what you wanted regarding the back firewall placement of the central separate headliner section.

I reckon they put the central section under the back window on first. to make it equal to each side.Then they were able to bring each side part over the ends of the central panel and to me almost cut through both 2 pieces of headliner on each side in the areas you can see in my photos. That would make it a 'butt' joint. That how after 56 years one side of mine has lifted like a 'split'.

For sure you could have the side parts overlap by a 1/4 " to make sure as security. I can see though if there is an overlap its very small indeed on my car.

This is where car trimmers earn their money. You just cannot make a mistake.

Dick's comment about the hessian under A and B pillars would make the surface smoother but I looked again at my pillars like yours they show the surface underneath and when you push on the surface there is no 'give' in it. I have said to Dick I would like to prove it but they have remained stuck for 56 years! As he has said to me maybe by the T6 they changed methods.

I have now wondered if the pillars were worked on with filler to smooth them but maybe that's going to far

Roy

[merbesfield]

Justin,

Just realised what you wanted regarding the back firewall placement of the central separate headliner section.

I reckon they put the central section under the back window on first. to make it equal to each side.Then they were able to bring each side part over the ends of the central panel and to me almost cut through both 2 pieces of headliner on each side in the areas you can see in my photos. That would make it a 'butt' joint. That how after 56 years one side of mine has lifted like a 'split'.

For sure you could have the side parts overlap by a 1/4 " to make sure as security. I can see though if there is an overlap its very small indeed on my car.

This is where car trimmers earn their money. You just cannot make a mistake.

Dick's comment about the hessian under A and B pillars would make the surface smoother but I looked again at my pillars like yours they show the surface underneath and when you push on the surface there is no 'give' in it. I have said to Dick I would like to prove it but they have remained stuck for 56 years! As he has said to me maybe by the T6 they changed methods.

I have now wondered if the pillars were worked on with filler to smooth them but maybe that's going to far

Roy

I can look at my early A car, but if I am not mistaken there was no padding under the A or B pillars and headliner.

[JR]

Mark, Roy and Justin,
It is not padding.
It is a thin layer of white, thin cotton cloth referred to as 'muslin' at least in the dictionary I have.
It is glued on the posts before the headliner material is wrapped and glued on them.
I'm sure it is in the factory manuals and Autos Int does it that way also.
It helps smooth out any metal bumps and imperfections (I know you guys would never permit that).
This are a couple of pics that I took from the Autos Int website on their jobs.
You can see the posts are wrapped, they used a black material for some reason.


and


Hope this doesn't muddy up the waters too much.
Dick

[Jack Staggs]

FWIW, all of the pro trim shops that I use install ALL of the screws for the visors/rear view mirror/coat hooks/quarter window latches BEFORE installing the headliner. A small cut on the headliner with a razor blade will allow easy extraction and location for fitment of these parts. This will have no effect on headliner installation. No need to fish around with a probe to find them.
Nice work Justin! Thanks again for maintaining this site at your expense.

[bbspdstr]

The A book calls it "gauze"....and does not profile Muslins nor Hessians!


The darker color under a glued section of headliner is usually thought to let the punched or pierced holes all show as one effect, even if Porsche didn't care.

[roy mawbey]

Bruce,

I made a mistake calling it hessian Dick had advised muslin. Now gauze might be a better 'key' for the glue? I looked yesterday at the small area that has lifted away from the front windscreen rubber seal it was once I presume underneath. Could only see headliner material but the glue was still holding it very tight on the upright A panel.

Roy