1957 Sandblasted Coupe

[ukinusa]

Made some head way getting the longitudinal finally fixed down with the jack spur too..

and following what Justin did on his Coupe I put primer and some top coat on too, as getting a good paint coat under there later would be a challenge. Going to get scuffed I know but at least in "cracks and crannies" there is some good protection.
.
Then the rocker went on too...lightly tacked at first as I wanted to hang the door before I welded it for real.

After much fiddling and a coffee break I managed to get the door pretty well set up, first time its been on in 30 years I think !.




The front is ugly; that's the next job.

[ukinusa]

So cut out the fender damage and got the patch panel almost to fit and had the wheel well patch to cut and fit too..

and closed up the end of the longitudinal, there was no trace of it due to rot, assume that was the right thing to do (and yepp - need to tidy those welds!)

Trial fitting outer fender patch



and inner patch. (Have to cut back to match the curves, and make the butt joint on top.)

The radius corner of the wheel well patch is too far out, will need to rework that curve so the outer patch will lay flat and align. But another day

and will need to add an inch or so to the bottom of this patch to make that curve complete on the rocker.

QUESTION: When I come to the final fit of the outer fender patch, how do I get a nice consistent crease of the metal that is folded back on itself and "pinches" the wheel well panel flange - a special tool ?

[Trevor]

I would go up much higher on your patch, it'll mean the patch is harder to make but there is still rust between the closing panel and the exterior skin you're not getting. Here's how I did it:
http://forum.porsche356registry.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40193

To fold the skin over I established the crease with a bead roller and used the tool below to fold it over. You could also just hammer and dolly the flange over.
http://www.tptools.com/-The-Skinner-Door-Panel-Installation-Tool,7853.html

[ukinusa]

See what you mean from your link, Ok will go back and reconsider, but I know you right (hate to say it ... this conversation is sounding matrimonial- yes dear - hope I don't get "moderated" for being sexist or something !
Tool, thanks for that too, I would guess smoother than a hammer and dolly ?

[Trevor]

Yes smoother and it's a little difficult (not impossible) to swing a hammer in that opening to fold the skin over. Fair warning though, the tool is better suited if two people use it as Jack and I found out. You ideally want one person to steer the direction of the roller and make sure the crease is sitting in the right spot against the stop fence (I don't know what else to call that part of the tool) and the other person works the ratchet. There are directions that come with the tool. It's also important to fold the skin over in stages, I think we took like 4 passes to get it completely folded over.

It's one of the trickiest pieces, as you go up higher you deal with the curve both vertically and horizontally and THEN when you go to put a crease in it the metal changes shape on you. As my friend Tony told me "you're asking a lot of the metal". The problem is all cars are different, some leaded on the door, some on the fender in that spot; so the reproduction pieces don't fit all that well. I had a piece from Simenson and it wasn't even close to fitting which is why Jack asked me to make it.

Like I said, it's tricky but you can do it!

[JTR70]

Looking really nice Steve and congratulations on getting that longitudinal all closed up! The tool that Trevor recommends is the way to go but if you find yourself without like I did some light torch heat to the inner lip gets the job done without the need to beat the hell out of it cold to heel it over which would be required otherwise. The tool however will produce a much cleaner job of it though.

Keep up the great work and progress!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Steve,

Trevor was really good in showing the full details on how he managed to do that similar job his links were very good. But.. you are also doing so well with yours. Sure you can go higher and higher but you have to be in control of the panel.Its normally clear when you know the metal you need to attach to is really quite sound and the smaller the panel its probably easier to do.

I never bought any repair panel just sheet steel and then formed the parts.Although Trevor is using the correct type of forming equipment I must say I adopted the method Justin has obviously used of heat. My gas welding gear all those years ago was used so much to help form. I kept well away from wired edges though that really was a bit beyond me. To see the kit required to do that makes me understand why.

Also if the new metal is attached to area's that are not really thin or weak from rust and is weldable without blowing holes, then it will probably last well unless like 50 years ago, you drive your car in all weathers.

The areas I welded have remained much like the day I welded them I see no change. The only change is in the past 39 years since I did it I used the rule ' don't mix a 356 with rain water'.

Attached 2 photos taken over 40 years ago showing rust damage from UK rain when the car was less than 15 years old. You are doing well Steve keep up the good work.

Roy

[JOP]

Trevor, thanks 4 shoving your "Skinner" tool.
I need to get one for my collection.
Enclosed a function photo
/ JOP

[Phil Planck]

Steve
Regarding folding over the skin. There are many ways to do this. I have wood hammer forms that Bruce Baker sent me(thanks again Bruce). You can form the bend on those. If you have Ron Rolands book he shows another very accurate way to get the fold with a good even gap. You can also use a bead roller with a tipping wheel to start the bend. Be careful with the skinner tool, as the inner panel, unless fully flush with the outer could cause some deformation problems. You need to bend the end of that inner to be flush with the outer in the hem area if you use the skinner. Ask me how I learned all of this.

Phil

[ukinusa]

Phil I have read and reread Ron pages (74/75)in my edition..getting some clarity but maybe confusing myself as well......

One question, the folded over metal just pinches the closing panel, there are no welds made from inside the door jam area to hold the seam ? right ?

And also so would you post a picture of wooden form - that's got me intrigued !

[bbspdstr]

The theory of a "Hammer form" is just a piece of something easy to cut, like (good) plywood that can make the curved bend you need in sheet metal, at least to 90*.

The wood I sent to Phil could do both the front trailing edge of the fender and the leading edge of the rear quarter.

I won't confuse anyone more by trying to explain how to get a specific curve, but remember that the tailing (back) end of the front fender and the rear edge of the door are the set edges and the opposite ends are what were filled (with lead, by a body contractor to Porsche) to secure a good gap. Yes, the fold-over in the front was tack welded, usually in at least two places midway up.

OK, see if this is more confusing...I hope not: I get the front curve by going over the fender more forward with a vertical line, as much on a 90* from the car's rocker horizontal as I can, mid-wheel arch. I mark it parallel every 24-and-something m.m. (1") up and with the door on, measure and record on a horizontal line how far away from the leading edge of the door the vertical line is. I take a piece of heavy paper or light cardboard a bit wider than the needed fender repair piece will be and tape it over the front of the door and good part of the fender, then measure at least 4mm less to the vertical line and draw the curve from inch-to-inch. That becomes your template for the wood cut, two to 'sandwich' the metal VERY tightly (usually with (2) 6mm-1/4" bolts through drilled holes and fender washers) to disallow shifting and then the edge is hammered over the wood so that about 1/2"-13mm is bent to be the curved return. It helps to have a body hammer the face of which is close to the curve you are hammering.

Another slightly thicker piece of metal can be used over which to keep that bend going (continue the 90* over the thicker metal to allow a space for the closing panel edge) and then the curve of the door and fender can be made to fit in the made piece. At 90* the bend takes shrinking and then that screws with the ultimate result when squeezed tightly and tack welded.

(This area looks far easier than it really is.)

Then, the carefully trimmed splash panel/closing panel edge is trimmed almost to the gap you want, a little wider than the trailing edge repair will be but almost level to the door, and then the repair piece is fit to that and moved around to take the necessary gap, whether lead remains on the door or not...where anyone would think the hinge geometry demands the gaps to be (always check door opening and closing clearance as this is done).

Then, with the patch fastened (Clico or TEK screwed or a couple of simple MIG tacks), trace the opening from behind or on the fender around the patch and trim the patch or fender accordingly. Butt-welding is best, but since some shaping is likely, some small MIG tacks and then TIG or gas torch is best...that's hammer welding after hammer forming the piece.

All this because I have never seen a purchased repair panel that fit or I'd recommend those as a start.

-Bruce

[ukinusa]

duplicate

[ukinusa]

Duplicate

[ukinusa]

Bruce - thanks. A difficult process to articulate for sure but I think I understand better; the repair piece I purchased was "fairly" close on the curve Vs the door curve (which still has its lead, however I am only using the lower section at present. Taking the whole panel out from top to bottom was too daunting with my skill level, I was worried about loosing the curves and reference points.

So currently I have spot welded/seam welded the lower panel in the wheel well, and had to heat treat and metal to work the rocker curve that was causing me problems before. (see earlier pic.)




Applying heat from my oxy.torch (set very low) till red, made metal manipulation SO much easier.

The patch panel fits well but unfortunately the door was off when I took this picture...


So my concern is about folding and fixing the rear fold over- I think heat and gentle manipulation is the way to go... as I have the top section intact, I have my reference curves and points.

Then perhaps the top half can be tackled; although close inspection using a mirror reveals no serious rot showing thru in the door jam area, although surface rust is bound to be there I know "in the metal sandwich". So I may risk leaving that alone or come back to it later.

[Phil Planck]

Here are pics of the hammerforms Bruce sent me and the part I made with them: