Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[JTR70]

6/25/16
Tail fitment with a bit more right fender welding.

As work and installation of each piece goes I can get tunnel vision so every so often and bit more now since I'm building the actual skin I'll look, study and take some overview shots of the car. Both relieved and happy with the way the fender continues off the door, to the rocker then over the cowl. It can get mentally debilitating when these panels are lying loose on the floor twisting and flexing. Many a session spent thinking how in the hell was I going to install this, and will it even look right? A perfect example in this shot is that nasty overhang of the initial tail skin fitment. Fortunately though as work progresses with a few victories my mind doesn't run wild with fear and intimidation as easily as it used to.

Checking rear cockpit area for symmetry from side to side.

I finished out the forward joint of the right fender at cowl so the top frame was reinstalled to check for clearance and profile consistency.

Ample clearance for the eventual canvas wrap. The eventual top frame for this car will undoubtedly vary a bit from my frame but not by much.

Begin rolling lower corners of the rear fenders.

Trevor rolls his wired lips quite a bit further down than the factory did. Though nice its made the curling of this lower edge much more difficult than it needs to be and also impossible to shape profile the edge to the eventual tail skin joint since that hasn't even been established yet.

My OG fender shows the roll ending just at the level of the mount tang. The naked wire lead is then just gas welded directly to the edge of the skin.

Went ahead and replicated that to make life much easier.

Corner instantly became much more manageable.

once the excess was curled over tight enough things fell a little bit closer in place.

Just a little bit closer as its a monotonous process of getting better fitment layer by layer overall.


Right side lower corner now prepped and rolled as well.


Moving back up top now to get the decklid gap established and work out from there. Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

6/26/16
Dialing in tail section continued.

Basic lower gap reestablished. This has been a tricky one to dial in as the gap changes as the tail panel is manipulated afterward to compensate for some other fitment issue elsewhere on the panel.

Comfortable enough at the moment I added a cleco on both sides here to hold this initial position. It could very well change and require more adjusting as it goes.

Body flow and levelness pretty good over on this left side.

The right side is another story with a bad low spot on this corner. Again as I try to chase things like this the panel changes shape and my gap gets screwed up.

As you can see by my numerous holes I've been fighting to achieve that magical best averaged fit.

Through it all it is getting better little by little. Some site measurements from the chassis to the lower edge of my coupe would be next so I could get an idea as to this lower aprons position; is it in the ball park.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[Phil Planck]

WOW!

[Jack Staggs]

Nice work Justin. Now is about the time you need to put that trans back in, and fit a mock up engine, with perimeter shrouds and muffler (I assume sport type with twin straight tips), to verify clearance of the tips to the lower edge of the apron, and also to assure proper fit of the engine surround sheet metal. We're getting ready to do this check on a '53 soon.
Some early cars (later preA?/early T1?/both?) have a slightly raised area on the rear of the apron to allow clearance for the tips. Dr. Johnson books have some info. I want to see 1/2" clearance to accommodate movement of the driveline on the mounts, and inevitable bottoming out of the tips, without striking the body work, another thing I HATE... I know that early preA and T2 are straight across, as is yours.
A good friend of mine, a Hollywood director, told me a story about Woody Allen. He says that while Woody is directing a scene, if he does not see what he likes, he simply says "Do it again" until he is satisfied.
No one cares how hard you have to work.

[JTR70]

Thank you Jack, like the advice on setting the rear up for tire clearance this too is a fantastic suggestion and a test I honestly would not have performed otherwise so thanks again for sharing yet another "pearl" here. I'm pretty limited on push-rod engine parts but I'll ask my buddy here in town If he'll lend me a few of his pieces to mock something up. I did order the perimeter shelf from ZIMS so I'll install that once I take delivery. Thanks again for helping me steer this project through the many potential pitfalls.

6/30/16
From a few days ago.
Dialing in tail for center and distance from the frame. Also for approach attitude in profile shape.

With the top portion set and pinned (good for now) I moved down to the lower valance. There is a lot of play and flexing going on here so slight variations in adjustment are many.

To help me create some sort of a fixed point to shoot for I begin taking cross measurements from this car to my coupe. Beginning with the distance at center from the outer surface of the x-member to the lip of the tail. The measurement from my coupe came in at 10mm closer. I wasn't expecting a perfect match considering everything back here is a reproduction but I was still shooting for it.

Reading the distance here from the chassis cross-member to the edge of the inner tail light hole.


Same spot on my coupe for comparison. About a 6mm difference. Both cars varied about 3mm side to side. I'm sure no 356 left the factory dead-nuts perfect in this regard.

Lower area now pinned into initial position. I tried to chase that center distance measurement I got from my coupe but the whole ass end just tucked under and looked like shit. It gave me the impression of old collision damage which was not pulled back out far enough and repaired properly. I was shooting for that factory baseline but I soon had to temper that with what just "looked good" in the end. So this was the approach angle and tail profile I ended up liking the best.

Its reading about 8MM out farther away from the chassis than my coupe but I think it will be alright.

Again best average fit is all you can hope for.

The fender joints were slightly improving as well which was encouraging.

More fitment and a brace fabrication up next.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[JTR70]

7/1/16
Tail bracket

To help tie things together further it was time to install this bracket that runs center-cross member to the skin. OG on my coupe pictured here.

This part is sold though the various vendors but I had no way of knowing if it would even be long enough considering the measurements I was getting from the frame to the skin on this car. Why in the world would it; its been the constant so far that NOTHING ever fits like its supposed to out of the box. So why not just make one built to suit? A remnant of perimeter repair section was already half-way in the making. Template and measured for needed length here.

Finishing up the last of the bends.

One brace built to fit.

Clamped in and looks like it going to work.

Set screwed into its initial position.

One more detail down. Note the tail light hole orientation to the frame; about as even and symmetrical as I'm gonna get.

Turning back to the fender joints next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JOP]

Justin, you are a real "counterfeiter" using all that American steel on the German steel body

It looks really nice and good that you can manufacture some parts inhouse

[JTR70]

Why not; the whole body is American made and counterfeit Per.
Yeah, I can do the simple parts with 90 degree bends but that's about it.

Thanks my friend!
Justin

[Manolin]

[roy mawbey]

Oh I like the flag and your thinking Justin you have made a nice part it looks really original and perfect fit. I have a certain small item on mine made from an electrolux fridge panel. You would never know after the underseal is on!

Keep up the good work.

Roy

[JTR70]

Thank you Roy! Right, undercoating can hide a lot of sin.

7/4/16

Began squeezing these two panels together for closer contoured shape and fit.

I was going to use cleco's but soon realized I needed much more clamping force. They actually began to fit a lot better but they still don't agree or like each other very much at the moment.

There both still low where they meet but it will get better as they both get used to the idea. its just incremental improvement as she goes.

overall contoured shape is coming.

As the tail is being tightened to make the turn the lower corner of the apron(green arrow) is springing out. That's saying there is too much metal there so I'll add in a relief cut there and gather it up to get the roll back.

Repeated same process on the right with similar results, encouraging. The lower corner on this side too (green arrow) also needs to shrink a bit.
It of course was going a bit too smoothly. Major fitment issue discovered and coming up next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

7/8/16
A lot of continued wrestling with that tail skin to get it to fit and look better. It really continued to "F" with me through a few of last week's sessions but a break through came when I decided it was time to cut in the bumper bracket holes.


Added in the relief cuts at the corners just trying to get some bit of improvement in shape as I went.

As I continued trying to figure out just what the hell needed to done here to get to the next level. This lower apron seemed to hang just a touch too low.

it was also running higher on the right than it was on the left as it was sight marked from the bracket mounts. I needed another locator for additional reference so I thought now was as good a time as any to get the bumper iron holes cut in.

Began of course by copying what the factory did. As you can see these originals in my coupe were crudely cut in with no real regard for beauty. Most important sight marking for me was how the top of the hole went just past the bead roll.

OG hole was templated then the skin was marked for center with the bracket mounts. My template marking also goes just above the bead roll.

Bracket holes cut in. First major issue and confirmation came as I tried to mount the irons. The holes where simply way too low to allow them to pass through, clear and seat into the mounts on the chassis. The "jog" in the irons was not enough. My first thought was to cut the holes higher but that would have looked like shit and bottom line it wouldn't be right. The other concern too would be exhaust clearance with the apron as Jack mentioned earlier. If this apron was too low which is what it was telling me then there was no choice I'd have to raise it.

The skin was unscrewed to the car so it could float allowing the bumper irons to decide how high it needed to go up for clearance. My rotisserie bracket is made from old bumper irons so it makes for a good locator.

I'll tell you once I had the irons synched down with the tail just loose and perched on the brackets a lot of fitment issues I was having improved immediately. The fight really turned a corner for me here.

Unfortunately the trade off is that I have lost my lower gap at the decklid for the moment. So some additional nip and tucking on this is tail is going to be required to get that gap back and to keep the newly established apron level. I just hadn't determined whether I'd cut at the lid opening or along that long apron weld joint.
I was just happy and so relieved to be going in the right direction.
More later...
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[bbspdstr]

Repro parts a problem in your macro project?

Here is a micro similarity for me this past week x3. Fuel petcocks. Rebuild an original or a repro, they are two different diameter cork discs. Get the correct one and then deal with it being the wrong thickness. Put sticky sandpaper on the aluminum turning part and just turn, turn, turn on the cork in situ to evenly remove a few thousandths at a time and try, try, try it again until everything fits and seals.

"How hard can that be...how long can that take....(and professionally speaking)...how much can that cost?"

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Patience is required, luck AND common sense is required. Justin, you have that all and I sense it is still frustrating and scary but a challenge to find the answer. What would we do without 'reference cars'?

Thanks for your tutorial...while I wait for a rear left fender for the Speedster I'm doing. Collisions are one thing, rust damage another...undoing previous bad work is the worst when repro parts are thrown in the mix.

Regards,
-Bruce

[JTR70]

Thanks for saying that Bruce! I'm just bumping my way along the best I can like a blind man. Ha, nothing, and I mean nothing about these cars petcock repair what have you; it all fights doesn't it. As you say people passively looking on from the outside and just not appreciating what it really takes to "get it there". I desperately try to convey it here but again only first hand experience can really do it all justice.




Thanks again Bruce.

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Good idea to use the bumper irons as a form of datum. I looked at mine today. They have never been removed from the car and I notice two things:
1). They almost both touch the bottom face of the rectangular hole.
2). The bumper irons are not horizontal where they are clamped on the
chassis with the 2 bolts.
3). There is room to lift them up 1/2 " into the middle of the exit
hole but I don't know why that was not done.

My car a 59 had the exhaust going through the bumpers, I changed to a sports exhaust with 2 pipes over 40 years ago. I believe I must have made two slight radius cuts to make sure the pipes had clearance. The last Leistrich ( spelling? ) silencer I fitted is very close to touching but has worked well for years.

That bottom valance has to be set so well in the correct position. After looking at your efforts you know that. But..how do you know where exactly the bottom of that valance should be. So easy to be an inch out. Suppose you could modify the exhaust exit pipes if you had to.

Roy