The Resurrection of Foam Car - 63 T6B

[Phil Planck]

I contacted Zims and Restoration Design regarding there front quarter patch. Zims does not have the double flange and Resto Designs does. I cut loose the bottom of the quarter and it moved quite a bit. There were stresses in that panel from prior accident damage. Almost looks like the rear door gap took a direct hit somehow, as there was damage along the top half of the door edge and all along the first 5 or 6 inches of the quarter. Spent some time removing more lead from the quarter and tried to reshape it. Decided to order the Resto Design panel, as this is a similar situation that Justin had on his coupe except a much smaller area. Back on page 8 or 9 of this thread where I showed some string checks it showed both the upper door and quarter were low from the handle up. I was able to correct the door with a dolly on the inner flange and whacking it with a rubber mallet. This moved the low areas back to flush. There is still some lead at the top of the door, and it may remain. Ground off the rest of the quarter flange from the lower lock post. While waiting for the quarter repair panel I will do some cleanup work on the lower lock post from and earlier repair and go back to working on the rocker.
You can see in this pic how the quarter moved when freed up.

[tperazzo]

Hi Phil,

Your picture shows that you are close to getting things to fit. Totally depends on how precise you want to be. No shame in re-tacking it close and fill the voids as needed. Right where the metal needs straightening the access behind is bad.

My car has the same damaged quarter above the handle. I plan to cut well clear of the lock post. I always plan my cuts so I have access behind to hammer the welds. I will spot weld the fender to the lock post. Well, I should say plug weld.

I was going to work on my hood next, but I could try this first. Justin just went through this too.

Remember the factory used lots of lead on the lock post and quarter.

[JTR70]

I understand exactly what your trying to achieve here Phil again this area directly behind (and in front) of the door is so tough to get stabilized and to desired contour after damage or heat from welding. This area was my recent downfall. Interested in seeing how the RD part you've ordered shapes out against the door. Keep up the great work! Justin

[Phil Planck]

Garage heater went out last Wednesday and needed a new igniter. Too cold to work until repaired last Friday. Then grandkids came up until today so no work done aside from giving my son a quick demo with the cutoff wheel to remove the bad quarter panel metal and then show him how to raise a few dents in the remaining quarter.




I spent another hour+ today removing more dents in the quarter. You can see above where I sanded off the self etch primer and worked on most of the dents except at the very bottom.
Did some trial fitting of the Resto Design panel, which does not have the double flange.









The contour matches the door end well along in both planes. I am going to have to make a decision on several issues. One is how to attach the repro panel. I can add the second bend and hopefully get it in the right spot, or I can cut off the flange on the lock post and slip this flange behind the lockpost and plug weld it or lap weld it to the lock post. The other is the uneven gap between the door edge and the lockpost flange(which may get cut off). Part of this may be able to be correct by removing a shim at the top hinge, as I have one or two in there. Need to do some more research and consult Bruce Baker. You can see that the top of the door has a wider gap than the bottom, and it gets progressively smaller as it goes down the door.

[JTR70]

This is a tough area to get shaped and stabilized after damage or welding. I think I would punch holes in the new flange, establish the gap and correct elevation with the door and weld into position directly onto your striker. Be interesting to see what Bruce thinks...
Thanks for the update and glad to hear you have some heat out there again.
Justin

[bbspdstr]

Sorry guys, I have exceeded my quota for today on the safety thread, so with a client upset that I can't finish his car by this weekend (so he car drive it in the ice and snow....and salt) I will 'revisit' this after Saturday.

BTW, after all the concern about "double returns" in the lockposts, if an original remains during a resto of mine, it's carefully removed so the rust always there may be addressed and the area secured. Remember, the factory designed an easy way to jig and secure most all panels, leaving excess overlaps that promoted rust. Given time, I would expect the old Porsche mentality would have insisted on trimming excess just for neatness. I butt-weld the rocker to that area (all those areas), too, and will, if the car is a 'serious' car, 'fake' the overlap for those anal-retentive enough to feel behind there for the sacred 'O'. (As in 'o-riginality')

Also, Phil, the Factory left room to create their gaps with lead, aka 'cheating'.....but it's 'original.'

-Bruce

[Phil Planck]

Bruce
Thanks for contributing. Did not know you were monitoring this, but really appreciate your insight. Gee, I have to wait until Saturday! I remember years ago when I was working on the other side and had so proudly fabbed a double return repair piece that you said you did not use those. So, I assume you put the quarter single return flange behind the lockpost and flush to it after the flange on the lockpost is cut off. Well, I can keep busy until Sat. cleaning up the back of the lock post and removing more dents. Next question is, this repair panel has the shape of the door bottom corner in it. The factory complete quarter did not as far as I can tell from the exploded parts book. It looks better than the reworked one on the rocker, so was thinking of a way to leave it and remove that area of the rocker.

And thanks Justin, for your continual feedback. I will have to say, participating in this restoration sub-forum has kept me motivated to: a) keep up as best I can with the rest of you restorers, and b) to get this car back on the road, and c) to keep it as correct and quality as possible with my limited skill/tool set.

Phil

[roy mawbey]

Phil,

Following this fender repair with interest. ( surely one of the most common rust area's on a 356 from my experience. I am though confused and I have looked for some time at your excellent photos and replies by Justin and Bruce.

1),In the 70's I cut on my passenger side a strip of rusted metal out similar to yours but, I cut just away from the door shut area and its lockpost. I then formed and finally leaded in the repair section. Its lasted well. However the drivers side RHD of course is still original although I cheated at the time opened up up some rust areas to clean metal and leaded.

I was frightened at the time on the passenger side to cut the lockpost area because at that time I knew of no companies I could get the part repair panels from.

So my confusion:-

Your repair panel turns in on the door shut curve and from your photo matches well the door itself. But the turn in extends for say maybe 15mm straight. On one of your photos you have a yellow marked line on that face where there should be a bend?? The door sits in a small area there. Did you cut away the step?? It would seem your doorlock face has no bend. How can you weld the return on your repair panel to the outer edge of the lock post area without forming the step??

I attach an old photo ( not the best )of my original area. Can you see my confusion. Quite probably I am wrong somewhere and your discusion about 'returns' are why I can't follow. Sure there is lead in that area as Bruce says and I found plenty on mine.

Am I up a gum tree here?




Roy

[JTR70]

Nice catch on that one Roy! If would have taken my own advice and plug welded the flange on there as Phil has his pictured that critical secondary step would have been missing. Phil did you trim a section off of your striker plate or is it factory?

My original striker plate flange shows an additional shoulder though this is an early high striker. A transitional change then?
Phil, so glad this thread is keeping you going. You guys help me along too! Justin

Thanks for the input Bruce!

[Phil Planck]

Roy
Very observant on that yellow line. It is yellow because that was the best pointed Sharpie I had left. In that pic, the repair piece is proud of the door, as I cannot easily close the door with it overlapped in front of the flange on the lock post. I did force it closed, and drew a that yellow line along the edge of the rear of the door onto the flange. This shows how far "proud" it is. If I understand Bruce, the flange on the lock post will come of, and the wide flange on the repair panel will flush up against the back of the lock post and attached via plug or lap weld. Hopefully will get more insight from Bruce on Saturday. Appears as if I will have to create a fake step with lead once the repair panel is installed.

Justin - I am going to have to guess that area had rusted away. I think all 356 door lock posts(maybe not PreA had that double flange.

[Phil Planck]

Got the back of the lock post cleaned up and decide to do the outside of the quarter inner, as for some reason, this had been overlooked. Found more foam behind the shock area:



Got most of it pretty clean now:




Removed door and put rocker back on. First time since the rear of front fender repair, so it wont slide all the way forward until I cut the overlapping hem flange down on the rocker.

[roy mawbey]

Phil,

On ' Jans ' resto on the samba site he had to replace the inner rear fender with a new repair panel. The exisiting one was 'peppered' with rust holes. I remember welding in new section on tne top where the rear quarter window bottom rubber seal rests on my car. I was lucky the rest of the panel including the shock absorber mounting was okay.

Looking at your last photo it looks like the main panel is okay? You only need to let in a repair patch where the foam is clearly seen??

That repair by Jan on Samba is new, have a look at it.

I will be interested in the reply by Bruce for the lockpost repair. To me, it would seem the 90 degree 15mm? wide flange on the repair panel could not just be welded to the existing area because the 8mm x 12mm wide step area where the door shuts into is now missing.

I expect the solution is easier than I think. I hope so.
I looked at repair panel info I have on lock posts. The ones I have are not clear enough to show the detail. The inside shot on Justins looks good but its certainly a complicated form. I have taken a few photos of my original lockpost area's. Both sides have different dimensions and that surprised me. I will post these later with some notification of the dimensions.

Roy

[Phil Planck]

Roy
After removing the foam, caulking, and remaining undercoat, the shock tower area has good metal. No patches required. Whew! I am following Jan's restoration on thesamba. I replaced that quarter inner with a donor pair from EASY back when there were still donor cars around. That is the thinnest metal on the 356, 22 ga.






There were many other repairs made before the donor inner was welded in.

[roy mawbey]

Phil,

I should have realised you already attended to that inner fender. It was a good donor panel! Also just noticed on your last post the photo showing your car with the old perforated inner fender. The photo also shows the original looking door post lock plate panel. I attach the photos of mine. If you need any dimensions I can give them but they do vary from drivers to passenger side. ( maybe you took dimensions before cutting?

RHD drivers door post:-


Passenger side:-



Roy

[Phil Planck]

Great reference photos Roy. Thanks for the dimension offer. When I get to leading in that area you will hear(read) from me.

Phil

PS - Here is pictorial from parts book for T6 lock post:


Here is what Stoddard shows for T6:



No angle at the bottom and flange area looks like mine.