The Resurrection of Foam Car - 63 T6B

[bbspdstr]

...... Looks like I am within 1/32 of smoothness at worst in some areas. Guess that is what skim coats of filler is for. I still am not happy with some low areas in the door caused by the bottom replacement. I have a plan that may easily fix this, but have not tried it yet. Will consult with my metal working forum first.
Phil

I made this tool from a piece of scrapped truck spring. It's about 4 lbs and I ground away the inner curve at the bottom to fit into the crease of the door skin and luckily, the rest is the curve of the door bottom up and past the welded repair seam. One guy gets in the car when it's hung on the hinges and another guy outside slaps over it and files a little to find the low spots. Ear, eye protection and gloves a must!

I can do the majority of the skin myself that way when the car and door is on a lift, but another set of hands works well in the hard-to-reach forward areas no matter what.

As far as 'slick' (polyester filler putty) goes for the small amount of surfacing, the old adage was that "an eighth of an inch is commercially acceptable" and Ferrari used a sprayable filler that thick on some of their cars I've worked on. Most all bodyshops use at least SOME filler, but that's when talent and time are in short supply. Most filler ends up on the floor and a little here or there is not a crime if done to a minimum and done well...and a 32nd can be considered 'just something to sand' to get it smooth.

Go figure; famous car people like Junior Conway use many layers of sanded paint to get a sm-o-o-o-th finish....and if the 356 is to be driven....well, just "git-r-done."

-Bruce

[roy mawbey]

Phil,

You were braver than me in doing anything to replace the wires. All mine are still original but I came very close with my welding on some of them. I had no experience but enough to realise if I removed the wire or had to replace in some area's I wouldn't have stood a chance.

You have done so well and regarding filler I have the same opinion as Bruce. For sure Justin's work is something else way beyond my ability.

But I make some points about filler. The last time I started to re-spray my car was 25 years ago. I have already stated my mistakes in not taking to bare metal but, I did take it down to bare metal over the areas I had welded and filled the first time around 37 years ago.

These area's were nearly all welded and leaded. The leaded area's were still fine in 1989 and all I did was a light wet and dry when the lead surface was there. The plastic filled areas again looked okay and only minimal plastic was added here and there. I resprayed because my 1977 spray was a mixed to sample Meissen blue and was not a good match to my original dash and the spray system I used was not good enough.

So.. the spray looked fantastic when finished really satisfied me at the time. but 25 years on, the leaded areas are untouched no sign of trouble but the plastic areas show a wavy type line around the areas filled. I have read it shrinks over time, its certainly changing over the years. First ten years no change then over the next 15 years you can see the changes. Maybe the filler I used 'plastic padding elastic'? maybe the way I applied it?

But its taken 25 years to really notice it. Only one place has bubbled, the rest is shrinkage. I have decided to leave it as much as all your posts, make me want to do all again. Phil, you are doing a better job than I did I reckon 25 years ago so it should be okay for you I think

Roy

[356JAGER]

Phil,
I think Roy has it right. I did mine 8 years ago to a level that made it a very nice driver. The first chip wasn't so hard to take and the hundreds of bits of patina that have come along are now part of it's charm for me. If I get another 20 years in this space, I want it to be driving and maintaining my cars and I'll be damn lucky and happy to do so for as long as I can. The resto was fun, but can't hold a candle to actually using the car as it was intended and getting the feedback from so many for whom it jogs an old memory or creates a new one. Can't do that in the garage. Just another Autumn rider's 2 cents. Fabulous work. Hope you get to put some nicks in it soon.
Best to you
Joel

[Phil Planck]

Bruce
You shared that with me a while back. I made one from a truck spring also(same one I used to make a slapper) and welded a short piece of black pipe on it for a handle. Filled the pipe with lead shot and put a cap on it. I offset the handle to be able to get to the end of the door.



My door problem I think is from over stretching one area in the middle. This has caused the metal on each side to sink down a bit. I plan to use the shrinking disc on this middle section and hopefully the adjacent metal will pull back up. Again, not talking much of a dip.

Regarding filler, thanks all for sharing your experiences. I plan to use lead on the door opening area like the factory did, but for the fenders and door panels will use modern fillers. Hopefully they will hold up for 10 years. That will be all I will be able to drive Foamcar if I get it done in the next few years.

Today I spent about 6 hours removing the transaxle. Took 1/2 hour just to get out one cotter pin on an axle nut that had been reused many time and just did not want to come out. Another 1/2 hour on 1 of the 8 front trans mount nuts. Tight and could not get a socket on it. Surely this trans has been removed at some point, but it has been a long time. The front shims were in what I would call a storage position - that is outboard of the mounts.

Question: Can I mount the transaxle on my engine stand?

Phil

[bbspdstr]

Question: Can I mount the transaxle on my engine stand?

Phil

Yes.

Sorry I forgot that I had shared the truck spring thing and now I see yours is better.

'Averaging' the metal is perhaps tried with 'off-dolly' slapping. Push the lows while slapping the high spots adjacently. Bump, file, etc. Save the heat for a last resort. You often wind up chasing your tail.

As for mortality, Dave Baker hung his wrecked RSK in my shop rafters for about 7 years, then in his shop forever until recently when it was sold with the parts he had collected for it over the last 4 decades but otherwise untouched....for BIG money. Mike Curnow had a ditto for the first RSR, a resurrected racing wreck. His widow and son will get the big bucks even if he doesn't finish it. Wouldn't it be nice if the values of T-2 A Coupes and T-6B Coupes could have the same future if we don't finish them?

-Bruce

[Phil Planck]

Bruce
Thanks for the engine stand response. I will take a pic tomorrow of the problem with the door. I don't think the off dolly will work, but easier for you to assess with the picture. There are 2 large areas that are low on each side of about 6" of the center. The center seems to be in the right location, but I am thinking a slight shrink of the center area will pull the low areas up. Will not do anything until I get a picture posted.
Thanks, for the umpteenth time for all of your help over the years.

The good news is Foamcar's engine is done and getting fine tuned in the 55 coupe:

[JTR70]

Nice! Looks like the Maestros motor on those old posters of his.

[bbspdstr]

Nice! Looks like the Maestros motor on those old posters of his.

Who you callin' old?

One of Saint Harry's poster pictures was sent to me back in the late '70s-early '80s, full color...no, 'ganz im farben' and almost full size, sporting a 'maestro-massaged' gold plated unit with an 050 and Webers, typical of Harry's work.

I pinned it on my shop's office door and each time I noticed another Harry-ism or un-originality, I'd put a sticky note there.

Dr. Brett had his '55 s/r with me and we were doing a bunch of business with parts when he had P.B.Tweeks, so that poster of course came up in one of our many conversations. When I had about 32 sticky notes on that poster, Brett asked that I send it to him, which I did.

Next thing I find out was that Brett passed it on to Harry and thus, I wasn't able to get 050 parts or Weber parts from Harry after that and he became more sensitive to the heckling he received at Holiday tech sessions and the like, where a few like me liked to sit in the back and ask obvious questions and make ancillary comments to his oft-silly monologues. (Yes, we were rude, but we liked to believe that anyone who dubbed himself "The Maestro" deserved it, especially doin' gangsta yo-yo-yo LA gold plating on a 356 engine...yo.)

Harry was funny and yet brilliant, but a transparent self-promoter. Living or dead, he got and gets the same respect from me as a dedicated rocket scientist and 356er. In fact, soon after his untimely death, Brett and I talked about creating a glowing icon (or bobble-head) of Saint Harry to put on any 356 dash, if'n ya know what I'm talkin' about. Harry would have LOVED it!

If you have one of his 'old' posters, please remember to genuflect each time you pass it by.

[Phil Planck]

Bruce
I did not get into 356 ownership until around 1986 so was not overexposed to Harry's style. My PreA engine came in boxes with the car and Secrets was my bible for rebuilding it. This was pre-internet days and I corresponded with Harry by snail mail and a few phone calls. As a newbie, I really enjoyed Harry's writing style and had all of his books. The big thing I agonized over was the crank. It had never been ground and was barely in spec to use standard bearings. I mailed Harry all of the measurements and of course he recommended a regrind. I had heard all of the horror stories about crank failures due to improper regrind so went with standard bearings. 35,000 miles later it still has decent oil pressure.

I used Secrets again, along with the factory manual, when rebuilding Foamcar's engine.

[bbspdstr]

[bbspdstr]

One more thing about Harry; long ago, Vic Skirmants told me (and I paraphrase) that 'Harry built the smoothest, longest lasting but slowest motors of anyone who builds 356 motors.'

[Jack Staggs]

I, like Bruce, also had many conversations with Harry and I did business with him only once. I was in a bind for a clutch disc, as there was a shortage of them at the time and noticed his ad in "the magazine" listing Japanese made discs for $69 (iirc),a reasonable price but $15 or $20 more than my normal wholesale suppliers. I called him (pre internet) and naively asked him if he offered a discount price to shops. He declined and said that the cost would be $79, plus shipping. I protested that the price was $10 more than his ad stated and his response was that he had been meaning to change the ad but hadn't gotten around to it. I reluctantly agreed, since he had me by the short hairs, and told him to go ahead and ship one down to me. Two days later it showed up with the paper work included in the box. On examination of the bill, I was quite surprised to see that not only did he NOT give a discount, or even the advertised price, HE CHARGED ME $10 MORE THAN THE PRICE THAT HE TOLD ME ON THE PHONE for a total of $89!!! Of course shipping was additional. I never even brought it up to him, but I never did business with him again. Classic Harry.

[356JAGER]

Whatever one's opinion of Harry might be, he was an unvarnished, original, and the 356 world is a bigger and better place for him, warts and all. I'm sure any of us would be subject to similar criticisms, so I don't find his eccentricities to be a detriment. He would also spend much of his time with the VOP or anyone engaging him in conversation at any venue, advising,clarifying,and educating gratis. One should also remember that for most of us, the expense of a rebuild is better justified by a smooth, long lasting motor, 'power' being a subjective concept.
The 356 - 912 world was improved immeasurably by his presence, and continues to benefit from his contributions, despite his all too common human quirks.

[Jack Staggs]

I completely agree on all points. I counted Harry as one of my friends. I was just sharing what I considered an amusing anecdote. No harm was intended to his reputation.

[356JAGER]

Jack, Don't think anyone could offend Harry in any meaningful way. His 'Maestro' alter ego, was always tongue in cheek, as was much of his storytelling. In my experience, Harry in the flesh, was invariably pleasant, helpful and a good listener. Others will differ...
Best to you,
Joel