1959 356A S/R coupe project chassis # 108625

[roy mawbey]

Well done Justin well spotted! that must the best way to get over that I reckon but, you just could have just been a bit more lucky and not have had that to deal with too.!! More experience I guess you will never forget. I will be interested to see how this repair turns out as nothing much is ever easy when good gaps are needed.

Roy

[JTR70]

Hood repairs:
A voice in my head kept nagging at me stop here and make all the needed repairs to the hood first. I need to build around a hood in final corrected form.
I've repeatedly beat the hoods mounting flange in an attempt to get this hinge centered but it just won't give me the needed movement. The earlier mock up with my hood confirms its the hood and not with the hinge or the pocket.
Closer inspection shows a buckle and a jog in the subframe that is creating the mount flange misalignment.
I have three issues to fix on this side. The slightly high crowned profile along the edge( its not all on the fender side) , the mounting flange and the damage to the center portion of the subframe; all from the old accident.

I decided the best and cleanest plan of attack was to remove the substructure as a whole at the factory joints. Peeling up the pinch seam, cutting the gas welds and drilling the spots along the lap joint.
Its out. Now I can go to town all three of these issues with a clear shot at both inner surfaces. This side of the hood has almost no rigidity now so profile resetting just got a lot easier.

Thanks for looking!

Justin

[JTR70]

Agree Roy, final engaged hood position can be tricky. Everything is constructed so lightly and with very little in the way of adjustment options once its all welded together and as you mentioned things still tend to shift and change slightly over time. Then of course there is the preload factor of the hood seal itself that affects its final position with the edges of the body. Just shooting for a final fit that requires the least amount of lead or bondo when its all over. Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin patience is a virtue and you were so right in not assuming things would just be okay. I like the way you proved that error step by step. Also so good again to have a spare item to confirm things as you go. I have over the years had my hood off a number of times and I do have a small difference in gap from the left to right fender. Its almost as though over 64 years the left fender has moved a small amount in the length towards the front nose. I could not correct it on the hinges but over that 500 mm length I could correct it with a little lead, but I won't. Also do you not need the rubber hood seal fitted but not glued in place just to make sure before painting as you need the compression to see the effect on closure height?

Roy

[JTR70]

Dialing the hood latch mechanism:
Original hood remounted and the latch mechanism with base was engaged onto the hood shank then lowered down to locate the most centered position in relation to the hood.
Next is setting the base at an attitude that matches as closely as possible with the approach angle of the upper catch. I want to ensure full engagement without any binding or misalignment. The gapped and set hood with the cowl is dictating everything.
This initial mock up is showing a bit more tilt in the lower latch than I remembered but after referring to this undisturbed original there is tilt in this base.
next was adding the upper closing wall in to check for clearance with the latch base.
The new wall does crowd it backwards a touch and the base is now sitting too flat and off in angle with the shanks approach. No surprise as these parts never fall right into place on the first try. Some nipping and tucking coming up next to get that angle back to ensure proper mechanism engagement. I don't any issues with latch jamming when its all over.

Thanks for looking!

Justin

[JTR70]

Good confirmation;
This unmolested hood bolts tightly against the hinges allowing them to float nicely in the center of the pockets. Confirmation number one.
Any needed future adjustments as far as the hinges are concerned will be to the hood side.
Nearly the same profile issue as before; the majority of the problem is on the fender side! Confrimation number two.
As I try to level the edge of the hood with the forward most edge of the fender everything behind it just falls apart much like it does with the car's original hood. So glad I tried this before just blindly assuming the original hoods profile needed all the correcting.
Not only that but the gap is huge the entire way down. The hood and its hinges are adjusted at center in a relaxed state. This is where it is staying! Everything including this remaining fender will be gapped and adjusted to suit, not the other way around. Remounting the original hood with new confidence to proceed.

Thanks for looking!

Justin

[JTR70]

Aside from the hoods profile, the gap on this side is enormous with the hinges centered and the rear cowl gap set and even. Remnants of a buckle at the crown of this fender can still be seen here. The factory weld joint also has a crack in it next to the hood. While the right side bore the brunt of the damage this left fender did shift a little.
Now I was beginning to wonder just how much of this contour discrepancy was in the hood. This fenders damage could be a contributing factor as well?
To get at that answer I decided to mock up this absolutely cherry, unkinked and accident free hood from my '56 coupe.
Mounted on the hinges and dialing the closest 3mm+ across the length of the cowl.
Fits pretty well though its a little proud at the center. Close, but thats why these hoods were numbered.

[JTR70]

Carefully contorted back in line with a large crescent wrench; no hammer strikes. You really have to careful with these later version hinge mechanisms. They are half the thickness of the earlier AT1 and Pre-a version mechanisms and instead have a spring washer installed to move everything over to one side to make up for the thickness discrepancy. If the hinge gets too bent up or deformed the star and the lock get out of alignment with one another and won't mesh correctly. I've delt with that issue before and the only real fix is to disassemble the mechanism and straighten the frame back out separately. The earlier hinges are much more forgiving. Hinges now reset dead center and will correct the hood flanges to match this position as closely as possible.
As the mounting flange adjustment continues I needed another look at the bulge along the left side profile. Setting the rear gap back to 3mm+ here.
That thing sure sits proud. I'm at the point where I'm really getting my mind around all of the damage and the hood is not as unscathed as I had first thought.
A lot of grinder marks on the right side where the skin had been damaged and reworked. It was actually very nicely done as it wasn't anything that jumped right out. Anyway the hood suffered more collision damage than I thought.

[JTR70]

Back to addressing the "center of the universe" for the front end of this car.
The Hood. It was tempting to just carry on adding components back on but the thought kept nagging at me as to what a mistake it would be to keep building around a damaged hood.
Now is the time to address all of its residual damage and build the body around a corrected hood. As you can see in the photo above the hinge sits cock-eyed on the pocket and rubs the side slightly. This angle does not allow me to slide the hinges in or out without a fight while mounted to the hood. In the end I have to be able to install everything smoothly as a unit as the final paint on the bolts should not be disturbed.
Once the bolts are backed off the hinge relaxes back to center where it should be. The mount flange on the hood needs some correcting.
Similar issue on the right side as well. These are tedious adjustments you definitely want addressed before its all painted.
While most of the problem is on the hood side, the hinges themselves do have some slight bending and twist in them as well.

[JTR70]

Rough staging the forward upper closing panel:
A lot of balls in the air all at once so now was just as good a time as any to begin rough fitting the forward closing wall. The center is marked on both panels.
and now onto trimming out small bites along the left edge until the center lines match up.
Enough excess removed to allow this panel to slide over into center.
A very rough mock up with the side wall but its a promising start.
Begin locating the latch mechanism next. A ways yet to go but its headed in the right direction.

Thanks for looking!

Justin

[JTR70]

The eventual fender will mount back on directly to that new flange and its position will dictate both the final gap the fenders leading edge height in relation to the edge of the hood. I'll have to hit that very close to avoid the need for any fillers to level them both out when its all over. This final position will also have to take into account the hoods final resting height both latched and under tension of a hood seal. Lots of fun ahead...
Continuing onto finding the sweet spot.

Thanks for looking!

Justin

[JTR70]

Begin new lateral closing wall fitment.
Again, a bit more weld dressing to do in here but I may wait until its back on the rotisserie. Three of the four walls that comprise this corner are least repaired and its layered in there like it was. Most of his area will always be visible so its important to get the final presentation as clean as possible.
Now back to prepping for the new lateral closing wall. Grinding and peeling the remains of the old walls flange.
Begin by cautiously trimming back slivers for an eventual flush fit against the chassis.
This is a very nice panel but is still a repop and am dialing in the initial fore and aft position by sight marking the embossments to the floor features in relation to the left side which is still original. It of course won't be perfect but just shooting for the best average fitment. This is only half of the equation and not the most critical.
What is most important is where its top mounting flange ends up in relation to a closed and latched hood.

[JTR70]

Right upper corner repair:
Decided to hold off on that inner patch to go ahead and finish repairing the inner sections first.
A real luxury having a clear shot at these internal structures.
corner and vertical wall patches installed. It worked out leaving that inner section for last as this hole gave me an access to clamp the patches tightly as the stitching went. Welds also dressed and cleaned up at the bottom of the hinge pocket; on this side anyway.
One last piece left. A lot of welding to clean up in here as it was a bit awkward to lean in and weld reaching up. I sure miss this thing being on a rotisserie!
Last piece welded in. I got a little greedy with the heat and blew this hole out at the very bottom. Its hard to convey but its little set backs like this at the end that can really try you during a session. This sort of gives you a tiny window into the realities of that speedster project above Roy; there is just not enough good steel left in it to weld onto.

[JTR70]

Thanks once again Roy! Right, it depends on what climate it spent most of its existence in but more importantly how it was stored through those years.
This recently unearthed speedster is a perfect example. It was left undercover in a back yard for 40+ years.
The owners I'm sure thought they were protecting it from the elements with all the generations of blue tarps and car covers through the decades.
but all they did was create a hot house and the rust went absolutely wild.
The rust has essentially burned it down to a set of torsion housings, its speedster specific parts and a VIN#. While it still would have rusted the car in general would have faired far better uncovered.

[roy mawbey]

Justin you have so much patience! Its hard to believe all these restored 356 cars do not have these issues above just sitting there waiting to be eventually found . I guess it helps if the car lives in parts of CA or Nevada for its working life but to see all the layers of rust on this area of the car must mean it sat outside somewhere wet for a long time. Although, it did not show all the problems when you started just like so many other356 cars many still probably, with hidden problems like you show above. After deciding to keep my car clear of wet roads after doing all the work in the mid seventies I reckon it would never have lasted another50 years without so much work.

So good for the owner to know even though he will never see it, these area's above are attended to properly. Its so true, the 356 shape just tends to hide the problems from view. Even in poor shape they still look so good to the eye. Or they do to mine !!

Great thread indeed.

Roy