Evolution of the 356A T1 & T2 How they differ

[Vivancos9263]

Justin,
Yes, my car is T1 but has been repaired with a T2 wall. I can either use that panel or a Simonsen that i believe will be identical. What i would like to know is the conversion needed. I still do not fully understand what you mean that it won't fit. If both panels are identical in length (so the trunk is the same) both should fit although one should have a bigger battery box and the other bigger sides but that doesn't seem what you mention, that's why i'm puzzled.....
Ignacio

[JTR70]

I understand where you're coming from Ignacio. I'll get some measurements here shortly.


This is a T1 Speedster in which a new simonsen wall was purchased. Back then I had no idea about a T1 to T2 variance. Once I had the side walls in, no way could I get this new wall as purchased to fit down between them squarely.

As you can see the walls were in flush against the suspension horn so they weren't going any wider.

I didn't want to do it but I eventually had no choice but to section it. Once I fitted it into my T1 coupe I was convinced that simonsens simply stamped this thing too wide. Then later, once I had a few T2 cars in front of me I realized that they were in fact wider. So in going back to what you were saying the lateral walls could very well be wider on a T2 as well. I never measured. I haven't heard of any complaints about these new walls being too wide for anyone else so they very well may fit perfectly into a T2 as built. I'll get some numbers next time I'm at the shop.
Justin

[Vivancos9263]

Last picture is interesting. So either the guys at Simonsen do the panels too long or Porsche added that difference on the battery well as the laterals seem to be the same. The second possibility seems weird to me because you would be affecting the front track, torsion bar length and so on and I've never heard of that. I couldn't also find reference in the parts manual about that either.

[Vivancos9263]

Looking at the old post picts i see that the old T2 panel was measured against the T1 and that the simonsen won't fit on the T1. So the trunk is indeed wider.....then, the Vin and battery panel should also be wider?

[JTR70]

Okay Ignacio, I did several measurements and a bit of study and here is what I found:
Overall width of a T2 battery box down between the side walls is approximately 28.5 inches. The overall width of my t1 battery box between the walls is approximately 28.5 inches...they are the same. It was a real brain teaser until I started comparing the lateral wall sections more closely.

This is an original T2 wall I cut out of a 58 coupe a few years back.


Notice how the overlap flange really encroaches into the access cover bolt holes on this left side.

Now look at the distance on the right side.

The left overlap flange is much narrower too. Yet still almost covers the bolt holes.

The right flange is approximately 5MM wider with ample distance away from the holes.

Original T1 Right side is identical to the T2 Right hand side.

By contrast the left hand side of my T1 (welded cover was removed) mirrors the right side. They are symmetrical.

Overall distance of the right access cover wall is about 9.5 inches for this T2 and my T1. When I cut this wall free it was at the flange so we're only missing a MM or two.

Overall distance(please excuse my hand) on this T2 left side is 9 inches even. Overall distance on my left T1 side is 9.5 inches.

T2 walls are built asymmetrical. The left side only was narrowed to accommodate the added 1/2 inch of width to the center.

Simonsen built their walls of course symmetrically so I'd venture to say that even guys with T2 cars were having trouble fitting this wall in as purchased. Mystery solved.
So if you buy that wall and section it like I did you'll be golden for a T1 application.
Hope this answered your question Ignacio.
Justin

[Vivancos9263]

Mistery solved! And a weird solution, I would have never though that the factory would do such a thing. Simonsen didn't either!. So yes, I'll buy a Simonsen panel and use the same solution you have and yes whoever buys the Simonsen panel, either for a T1 or T2 they are gonna need a bigger hammer!. Thanks for your help Justin.

[Jack Staggs]

Great detective work, Justin. A couple anomalies between T1, T2, and T5, which appear to be very similar. As you well noted, T1 has the steering box lower cover welded in place on the left side, but appears to have holes bored on the back panel for captive nuts. Huh. T2 has both covers removable with bolts, as does T5. T2 battery openings seem to be tapered smaller to the rear, while T1 seem more square. T5 is square as well, but about 1/4" wider than T1 and T2.

[JTR70]

That example is from a '56 Jack so I was surprised to see the bolt holes punched under the welded on access cover too. Way to early to anticipate the T2 change but probably punched anyway for a possible T1 RHD version?

[JTR70]

Ignacio, FYI: I took delivery of this battery box assembly from Trevor Marshall last week.

It was ordered for a T2 application

But as you can see Trevor builds the T1 version. If you haven't purchased from simonsen contact Trevor about this wall and save yourself the modification that might be required otherwise. His quality is excellent.

Justin

[Vivancos9263]

Thanks Justin, I cannot see that panel on Trevor's webpage but I contacted him. One question, is the battery panel on that assembly T1 or T2?
Ignacio

[JTR70]

Hi Ignacio, It was ordered for a '59 and is supposed to be for T2 as it has the center embossed Rib found on the T2 floor which also gets the tow hook.

However his center battery recess section is the narrower T1. The owner wants this detail correct so this OG T2 center section will be grafted in its place.

[Trevor]

Just to add a detail here. My T1 Coupe (six digit VIN/Chassis car) had the center rib under the cross brace. I believe that it has been said that all T1's were flat on the bottom floor and no rib under the cross brace - indicating that the center rib is a T2 feature. I'll try to add a pic via the edit button from my iPhone.

[Vivancos9263]

All six digit cars I've seen starting with low 100200s do already have this kind of panel. Probably implemented at the start of the series but I wouldn't be surprised to see some later cars without the rib, just to use up the old stock.

[bbspdstr]

Just to jump ahead a little, I am working on (2)T-1 356s that are really making me "do my homework" as they are not my usual fare. In fact the majority of my practical experience is from T-2 >

These two include a '56 T-1 "European" that was built in late '55 and the number of "pre-A" parts is amazing. Both the '56 Speedster and the European each had a 50/50 T-0/T-1 floor half and the Cab had the earlier front sheetmetal and signal light orientation.

The 5 months between their constructions showed major and minor examples of "using up" previous parts stocks.

The latest is that the European (nee "Continental") was one of the few early examples sporting texture coating under both the front and rear lids. I am at a disadvantage due to always blowing off cars like that that were not T-6 Karmanns as having texturing inside of bumpers or lids or other "uncommon" areas as cover-up of bad bodywork or "customizing."

Now I find from John Willhoit that he had an early '56 Speedster that passed through his shop that was done that way. The sister European to the one I have that was restored by Rainer Cooney a few years ago was done that way and Rainer provided pictures he found of an "original" application of that "undercoat/sound-deadener" done in a most un-Porsche-like way....on hinges and hardware....not neat at all.

So, if what I'm asking about, an interruption, gets past the current topic in this thread and anyone has any experience with or access to pictures or chassis numbers, please post them here. (And no, I cannot find anything in Brett's, Ron Roland's or the Factory literature.)

Thanks,
Bruce

[JTR70]

Trevor, thanks for posting those. WOW, yet another example of how there are just no absolutes when it comes to these cars. Your rear wall looks exactly like Trevor Marshall's offering. It has the dual removable access covers like a T2
a central rib on the floor but yours seems to have the narrow T1 style battery recess. Can you measure the width? As Bruce stated above; the factory was clearly just using up old stock from the previous run. I would have never guessed early closing panels to be undercoated from the factory like that Bruce but certainly sounds like a few where. Again no absolutes with these cars. Thanks for the continued education you guys!
Justin