Evolution of the 356A T1 & T2 How they differ

[roy mawbey]

SJ,

Just concerning the T2 handles as well as the 'B' and 'C' the door handle bare casting can be interchanged but the lock cylinder recievers are handed left and right. So you would buy a matched pair. Otherwise from memory the key would be upside down on one side. I have had my originals apart but for the life of me can't remember how the cylinder is held in position.

I know it was possible at one time to buy a bare handle and unmatched left and right cylinders. But if you bought a pair of new handles they were matched left and right. Factory number: 644.531.061.01

Almost feel like taking one apart again to see how it goes together.

Feel free SJ to correct me if I am wrong on that.

Roy

[JTR70]

Hey S.J.,

Here's a pair of matched T1 door handles from my "coupster" project. (Coupe-57976) Actually the lock tumbler/buttons are #'s matched and original to the car. The handles were the best original pair I put together from the 30 or so I have had run through my hands over the years. The handles themselves could be pre-a or T1 I honestly don't know because the castings remained unchanged through this run.

As you can see they are exactly the same and do not mirror one another. The relief hole for the lock pin is on the same side. The tumber/ button assemblies can be interchanged to either handle.

Opposite view. Again there was only one casting for the square door handle and lock tumbler. This is also the same story on the original handles from my other T1 coupe 58367. No true right or left and all pieces could interchange. Thinking back I really like this feature because I could remember trying to figure out which handle I would use on which particular side to get the most pitted side facing downward out of view.

here they are oriented as if mounted on a car. One lock pin up and the other down. So of course the key orientation would be different from side to side. I suppose one could drill the hole for the lock pin on the opposite side to orient the tumblers but it would not be original as it came from the factory. On the rounded T2,B,C handle there is a shoulder inside the button housing or shaft that orients upward, this detail mirrors the opposite handle. So there is a true right and left side with these later handles. Unfortunately I don't have a later example on hand to take a photo of but I'll run over to my buddies and get some shots of his. Justin

[S.J.Szabo]

Hmmmmm.... Well, this is indeed the "handed"ness that I was talking about. But what you are saying is that all T1s had tumbler sets that were at 180deg. to one another. While the later ones are not.

Now, I'm in an awkward position, as I have never seen 30-some square-base handles, nor have I much experience unlocking someone else's T1, so my experiential database is weak.

But my logical database tells me that even in the pre-war era, manufacturers knew that asymmetrical door key operation is annoying to the majority of users. Early VWs don't exhibit this behavior, do they?

It would be interesting to hear from some other T1 aficionados.

[JTR70]

I'll be honest with you S.J., right after I posted those pics and realized mirroring the Key orientation is a easy as drilling a hole 180 degrees I began to doubt my position. I got to thinking, Maybe I overlooked that lock hole detail and mistakingly put to rights or lefts together. I put in a call this afternoon to a real expert.
I spoke with Victor Miles and he did confirm that All pre-A and AT1 handles are the same and that there is no true left or right orientation.
However, the very late and very rare 1957 transitional square door handle with the T2,B,C plungers was a matched left and right pair with symetrical key orientation. So a precursor to the evolutionary change to the T2,BC handles. Justin

[S.J.Szabo]

Well dog my cats.

I wonder if, in the case of the early cars, the lock cyl. were handed. The problem with this theory is that my T1s cylinders seem to be original (with correct tumbler numbers) and they are not.

Somehow, it sticks in my craw that the earlies had asymmetrical key operation. I don't know why.... it just does.

[JTR70]

SJ, So your locks are "handed" on your T1 coupe? Can you post a detailed shot of one of your handles? Justin

[S.J.Szabo]

Well, I wasn't too clear, eh?

The handles are identical (i.e. not handed), as are the lock cyl. Therefore, the key operation is not symmetrical (to lock; key ridges down, clkwise rotation on driver's side, key ridges up, clkwise rotation on pass. side.).

Or, the pass. side is the driver's side upside down.

No fotos, I'm afraid. The handles have been busy on the car for thirty years.

[JTR70]

Thanks for the confirmation S.J.

Courtesy light configuration.

A coinciding change occured with the shifter orientation and ashtray location change from T1 to T2. The T1 center mounted dash light was also omitted in favor of twin roof mounted lights above each B-pillar. This configuration would remain unchanged through productions end in '65.

Again T1 version dash with embossed courtesy light hole. T2 version dash lacks both holes.

T2 version housing for roof mounted lights above both B pillars.


T1 roof with no light housings and corrosponding dash details.
More changes coming up.
Thanks for reading this!
Justin

[S.J.Szabo]

I'm curious; what did the owner do with the extra holes he cut in that T1 dash?

[JTR70]

The Silver example T1 dash? Which holes are you referring to S.J.?

[S.J.Szabo]

That would be the hole for the ash trey with the lighter next door.

I'm old and subject to brain farts. So it goes.

[Manolin]

T1 door handles: the early 56 is different than early 1957? I've seen the 55 style and the push button and handle are more square on the housing, and key slot sits differently and is cosmetically different.

[roy mawbey]

Guys,

Over on Samba there were questions about 1952 cars when this happened,when that happened etc, I had this listing for 42 odd years and posted it on. I knew one of the authors through PCGB in the 60's and 70's and he and another guy compiled this. I know it took them a long time and I also have the same sort of list for engine modifications dates and engine numbers etc. ( But have to find that one.)

This listing below seems to have been well received so thought it would suit this thread very well as it goes fromn 1950 - 59 and the end of the 'A' model. Of course I know some of you will have already seen it on Samba. I will look for the engine one and hope I find it.

Roy

[JTR70]

Thank you for posting this Roy! What a great resource this is!

manolin, you must be referring to those very late '57 T1 transitional square door handles with the unique lock tumblers.

[roy mawbey]

Okay Guys,

Found the engine info I was looking for. Its nice to see the actual engine style listing on the left making it easy to link it to the cars they were fitted to. Its again 40 year old info.

I also found the remaining 356B-C chassis deviations similar to the previos one I listed above. I realise its not 356A-T1 and T2 info but thought it belonged here. You can move that if you wish.

Roy