Evolution of the 356A T1 & T2 How they differ

[bbspdstr]

Guys, I learned a long time ago that learning itself is the major tool in working with or on these cars.

When people would compliment me on how much I knew, I would always (and still do) quip "Ahh, I don't know all that much and no one can know EVERYTHING, but I have an advantage of usually knowing where to look or who to call."

This site has been a Godsend for continuing education. For myself, it is great to learn so much more even after 50 years of doing this work.

I am always blessed with either another example on-site for reference during a project or having one nearby to check. I feel most impressed with those here on ABCgt who do not have that almost mandatory "convenience" and get such great results!

Thanks,
Bruce

[Trevor]

Trevor, thanks for posting those. WOW, yet another example of how there are just no absolutes when it comes to these cars. Your rear wall looks exactly like Trevor Marshall's offering. It has the dual removable access covers like a T2
a central rib on the floor but yours seems to have the narrow T1 style battery recess. Can you measure the width? As Bruce stated above; the factory was clearly just using up old stock from the previous run. I would have never guessed early closing panels to be undercoated from the factory like that Bruce but certainly sounds like a few where. Again no absolutes with these cars. Thanks for the continued education you guys!
Justin

Hey Justin!

Sorry for the delay getting back to you on the width. Mine is narrow. Approximately 9.5"





I was at Jack's shop on Friday and he has a 57 Speedster in for some work and it has the same battery floor. Notice the drain hat has been knocked off at some point in its life.






Also on that box you ordered from Trevor M., if it's suppose to be for a T2 I believe the side ribs should be shorter by about 3~4 inches. The box as built looks like a good match for a late T1. If a Concours resto, I'd change it; anything else... it will be totally acceptable.

[JTR70]

Thanks for the confirmation Trevor. It looked like the narrow version.

[Trevor]

Check this feature out on my car that Jack noticed the last time he stopped by my house to check out my 57. We happened to be talking about installing the ZF box I have in my T1, which would require modification to the steering box acces hole. Except... looks like Porsche was already making small changes in preparation.

The last two pics are of the underside of the access hole. I'm holding a mirror to see underneath where the metal has been wrapped over on itself.

[JTR70]

Great detail shots you guys! Yep, you have a lot more clearance room than I do on my early T1 which requires me to install the cap of the box after the rest of it is already in position. You've got the early narrow battery wall recess but yet you have the twin removable lower access covers. This feature still coincides with the installation of the ZF box and the fact you have ample room to install must indicate your car was originally outfitted with one. Never say never though. Thanks for the pics and the info!
Justin

[P356A]

Inspired from this thread I recently had a conversation about missing or incorrect parts for our T1 models with Torsten Walsdorff from Simonens 356 Panels. He told me that he is going to produce new or updated batterybox floors and frontfloorpans for the T1 models.

Yesterday I received the confirmation from him that the new and updated parts are now ready to order from his partners.

Here are some photos i received from the new parts:

[John Pierce]

It's nice to see that the vendors are reading the forum and making changes to their products for improved accuracy!!

[Don C]

+1

[JTR70]

Hi Lutz,

Welcome along here and thank you for sharing pics of these new offerings for T1.

That new T1 version battery floor looks fantastic! Those well defined and long lateral embossed ribs are exactly the details I'd want for my car. As for the twin drains I am 99% sure that most if not all production T1 cars had only the forward drain.

When I researched for my partial floor repair I found this stock photo in my 1956 edition factory workshop manual. This one shows the twin drain hats but this example car must have been a very early prototype because I have had several guys with early T1's still with their original floor say they only have the forward drain. Notice too there is some sort of a rolled in step just ahead of the rear hat? Yet another feature not found on all the other originals I've seen.

When I made my repair section I think I made a mistake because later I found the original rusty battery floor out of 1956 coupe 57976 and it too was fitted with only the forward drain. Just an FYI if you guys decide to make the adjustment. Anyway, beautiful parts! Welcome once again.

Justin

[P356A]

Lutz

[JTR70]

Oh, okay got it. That's a really early T1 you've got there. Think about starting a build thread on it, we'd love to see your progress. I have two good reference T1's here and will help all that I can. Best of luck with it!

Justin

[bbspdstr]

From an original '56 Model year early T-1 built in December '55. A different "K member" or diagonal, changed soon after to a plain center forward vertical.



When you think of efficiency, here are 2 original wiring bundle keepers, one welded by a torch, one by a spot weld and both look like scraps found on the floor after trimming another part. "Oops, forgot the second clamping piece....ah, conveniently, here is one on the floor!"

-Bruce

[roy mawbey]

Bruce,

I bet you are correct there! An odd scrap that today would be cut parallel then radius blended on the corners to stop the sharp corners digging in the fresh wiring loom and finally neatly formed with a slightly larger radius to suit the wiring loom before a neat weld to the body. You tell me what would the Amelia judge think, do these guys actually expect to see this type of work from the 50's and ignore its amateur construction? Today's work on these cars seem streets ahead of work of some work carried out back then.

I really do begin to think its true they never expected much more than 10 years usage before the owner bought another one. And that also most just drove them and never looked at wiring securing clamps
in any detail anyway.

Mind you, the overall concept and look of the 356 produced over 60 years ago in the case of the T1 was terrific really. So many things for example welding systems, have changed for the better to help production and restoration.

Roy

[bbspdstr]

Roy, I like your astute observation!

My son recently sent a link to a website showing todays construction of vehicles called "Porsches" but they have engines in front, cooled by a liquid.....

https://www.wired.com/2016/10/painstaking-process-building-porsche-panamera/?mbid=social fb

I replied that the last time I was at Porsche, there were no robots, Germans managed Greeks, Turks and Moroccans in construction and the engines were in back and cooled by air....and he was 5. Yikes, how the world has changed in 41 years!

Regards,
Bruce

[bbspdstr]

I must thank this community for a wake-up re: "boat drains" in early T-1 battery boxes.

I had installed a Trevor Marshall complete T-1 battery box on this B/Y'55/M/Y '56 T-1 and forgot that the bottom of the first units post-T-0 were flat and had the upside-down hat drain.

I caught that from this thread, thank you, just in time. It was on the rotisserie, in primer, so I cut the longitudinal depression/rib and made a drain piece and ..... viola!






Thank you all!
-Bruce