Evolution of the 356A T1 & T2 How they differ

[Trevor]

Hey Justin,

Sorry I missed your question about the carpet tabs back one page (I just went to look again at your photos). I checked my car and I don't have the carpet tabs.

[JTR70]

It says that your speedster is a later '57 and was beginning to be outfitted with several T-2 style components like trevors coupe.

Thanks trevor, so it sounds like the carpet flap was more of a 58 and 59 change. Justin

[roy mawbey]

Guys,

A while ago I had my Dutch friend ask me how exactly the rear seat upholstery fitted on a 59 T2. The covering of the gap when the seat is raised and lowered is quite confusing. also the fixing of the vinyl without a copy to look at is difficult. My seats are original so I sent him a number of photos for him to study. The hard board flap is a nice design feature. The fitting of the octopus to hold the seat in the upright position is also interesting You can just see my original one in one of the photos.

If at any time you are not sure about how it all goes together then you can ask me. Just remember many T2 cars have been upholstered it seems incorrectly in one position. The gap between the sitting pad and the rear seat upright is vinyl not carpet. Now, this might only apply to T2 cars not T1 so check.

[roy mawbey]

Guys,

Final 2 photos of the rear seat upholstery.

Roy

[JTR70]

Thank you Roy! These are very helpful detailed shots that are valuable to anyone putting together a Later T2 and wants it authentic. I did not realize there is a "filler" strip of paneling for that gap. I thought it was just covered by the carpet. You know it turns out my rear upholstry was all original when I carelessly tore it all out in '87. For the life of me I cannot remember if it was carpet all the way down behind the seat cushion or if there was a vinyl panel like yours shows? I also noticed that the later jump seat is wrapped around with vinyl on the leading edge creating a lip of sorts. The early t1's are carpeted closer to the edge on the back. Thanks again Roy! great shots of an original! Justin

Another slight change was to the rear seat pans lower verticle closing wall was to the inner embossment.

The inner was changed to this lower rounded embossment. At least for 1959 T2.

Early T1 and even up to 1958 T2 had this matched pair on both sides.

The flang joint at the back of the longitudinal at the verticle closing wall or cap went from being seam welded on the T1's to being spot welded only on this 1959 T2 chassis.

whats left of the original 1959 seam joint.

Spot-welded together only with leading edge left raw.

T1's were not spot-welded along this seam but gas-welded all along the leading edge. The Longitudinal was replaced here but the seam weld was replicated. Thanks for reading this! Justin

[JTR70]

Decklid cable release tube was moved lower from T1 to T2.

Early T1 coupe with release tube mounted high along the closing panel.

T1 Speedster (83142) with tube mounted higher as well.

1959 T2 chassis showing tube mounted lower along the frame runner.

1958 T2 chassis showing tube in the same position down low along this corner. Was moved here so I could mock up my roll-bar mounts. So a definite change for T2. Trevor is yours low or high? More later. Thanks for reading this! Justin

[JTR70]

Another slight structural change from T1 to T2 was to the rear battery box bulkhead wall. Though practically identicle in construction and appearance there was one obvious change and another not so obvious.

Early T1 wall with left access cover spot-welded in permanent. RHD Early T1's would most likely have the right cover welded on.

T2 bulkhead wall. Both access covers are now removable. This change was here by '58 and perhaps coincided with the introduction of the ZF steering box. Maybe late '57 T1's had this obvious change.

Here is the not so obvious difference. The recess for the battery was widened by a 1/2 inch along with the cover change. Early T1 example above showing just better than 9.5 inches across.

T2 version measuring just better than 10 inches.


Here is a direct comparison with an original T2 lower flange section and a T1 Bulkhead wall. Reutter widened this area a full half inch.

Going back to T1 speedster 83142 and my earlier statement that all the new replacement panels are T2 style. I could not get this wall to fit between the "frame rails". I had to cut it in half and remove a half inch out of the center. Note the T2 style twin removable access covers. I at first thought this was a mistake in the stamping until the '58 coupe arrived. Its lower flange provided the example above this photo and the confirmation that these were in fact different.

New wall cut and sitting in my T1 coupe for fitment confirmation. Fit like a glove now. note the 1/2 inch of overlap that had to be removed.
More to come. Thanks for reading this! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Interesting Justin the differences between T1 and T2 under the front hood. As far as I can tell the access cover to the ZF steering box for my RHD is only the 4 screw version on the right side. I have never taken off any insulation to see if the left side is screwed. It appears in the photo attached not to have screws. It looks dead flat under the insulation. Notice how poor the cutting around the stamped chassis number is! I nearly tried to correct that some time ago but stopped. The thickness of the sprayed on sealer is again not a neat job how I would have prefered your really nice painted finish.

I don't think both of my pods down by the battery can be removed but I will check. Again 35 years ago I put some paint on the sealant applied by the factory I have contemplated doing it again with a semi matt black. Gloss just makes it look really messy but it is I guess, quite unusual to see an untouched battery box area on a RHD drive 'A'. There is no rust thats why its been left alone.

I guess some people could not live with this but its too much for me now and where would I stop? I remember the weeks removing the stuff from the under floors and longitudinals

The gap for the battery is also interesting my new one just purchased fits in but with not that much to spare. I will check the size and width of battery.

Roy

[JTR70]

Hey Roy,

Strange I would have bet the farm that both your covers would be free. Maybe an RHD thing? Don't feel bad about your trunks appearance; its not horrible plus its all original which more than makes up for a little goo here and there. I think your very wise not to mess with it; absolutely right,"where to stop"? It all snow balls very quickly and before you know it you're staring at a bare shell. Let us know how your battery recess measure out. Thanks! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

I checked out my battery box area yesterday. Well the width measurement where the battery fits in is the same as your T2 its ten inches or there abouts. The battery has more room width wise than I thought around two inches of clearance width wise so the battery would have fitted the earlier T1 as well with its smaller gap.

Also the 2 inspection pods on my car are removable I thought they were welded on one side. But its odd the right side ( looking from the fornt of the car has the 4 bolt heads to secure that pod but so well covered by the horrible black sealant I had to really look hard.
The left side has three bolt heads? The bottom right of the pod has no bolt but a bolt of the same size exists half way up the on this right side??
Never noticed all this really, It would have been a messy job when the car was new to get those pods off with all that goo around them.

So many things to find out about the 356

Roy

[JTR70]

Thanks for the confirmation Roy! Hey, if its no trouble could you post a clear detailed shot of the upper and lower battery box floor of your car? I don't have a nice T2 example and want to high light the center rib change and the addition of the tow hook. You're so right always something new to learn about these cars. Thanks again! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Will take a photo soon of that area.

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

First 2 photos takenn from underneath the car a few years ago when I had access to a lift.





The next post shows the view from under the hood.

Roy

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Attached some pics fromm under the hood. You can see the fixing of the towing hook support plate and the position of the central rib which you can compare to the view from underneath I sent.
I didn't remove the battery it was so cold out today I needed a heavy coat on outside in the garage.

One picture attached shows the bolt holding the right side pod I mentined yesterday. Look for the positive terminal on the battery and then directly to your left you will just see it.

Hope these help if you actually need measurement values ask.

Roy

[JTR70]

Excellent detailed shots of a correct T2 battery box floor! Thank you for helping on such a cold day Roy!

As you can see in Roy's detailed photos above the 356AT2's floor incorporated a center strengthening rib with the addition of a tow hook. Also no drain holes in the floor.

By contrast this early 356AT1 floor is flat with no center rib or tow hook originally fitted. This early version also had a drain hole with metal caps over them.

Lateral pressed in ribs and reinforcment brace were all identicle through T1 and T2. I can only speculate that the other changes to the floor coincided with the rear bulkhead wall change described previously. Agian all vendor replacement floors are T2 style with the center rib and are incorrect for 1956 and early 1957 356AT1. Thanks for reading this! Justin

Thanks again Roy!