Disc Brake conversion kits for 356

[merbesfield]

Justin and all, I did a dual MC conversion on my A. Sorry I don't have any pics on this comp. Will post some tho. I didn't want to see the fluid reservoir from the outside. I took the reservoir from a 69-73 era 911 and mounted it inside the access panel for the steering unit. The curve of the reservoir fits the back left curve of the opening perfectly. Looks like it would be factory. I took the factory mounting bracket and reconfigered it to have tabs so it mounts to the lip. With the lid in place you will not see it. It should be visible for a quick visual inspection by looking up through the round DS body opening. Again, sorry for no pics.

[admin]

I did a little trick with an oem single circuit reservoir for fluid fill in only. It is connected to a dual circuit reservoir hided under the bonnet, clean looks, nice function...... just my 2ct







Have fun,
Tom

[JTR70]

Tom, thanks for the links and for posting some shots of your conversion. I like the use of the old alloy res. It must T-off under the trunk floor to feed both ports I assume. The leather binding on your carpet really looks first class BTW! leather tanks straps are also very interesting.

Mark, would like to see your res. setup...

Thanks for the feedback Gerard! great posts and pics!
Justin

[merbesfield]

Tom, that looks really nice! I also like the straps on your tank. What is that cap over the sending unit? As for using the single resev. to fill the system vs. dual... If I understand it correctly, if there was a failure on one half of the system, you would lose all the fluid from the reservoir but leave the fluid in the half of the system. So you would still have brakes, and hopefully recognize that something was wrong, I.e. reduced braking capacity, and then check your system. So another words not wholesale failure.

[admin]

You described it correct, simple physics in here. The system works identically as an dual master system with the two chamber pod.

Thanks for your comments on the leather straps on the tank, I will tell something about that in my post about #115368

Cheers,
Tom

[mr. warehouse]

Greg, Are you offering any of these kits through Vintage warehouse?

Sorry for the late reply.
I offer most of the Chinese (EMPI), CSP, and AirKewld kits. in both 5x205 and 5x130 as well as Chevy, Ford

My preference as an installer, not based on price would be as follows:

CSP
EMPI
AirKewld

The CSP kits bolt on out of the box, not hassles, everything is included, nothing to "figure out"

The EMPI kits are about the same, but are missing dust caps for conversion caps (on front kits) and need to be ordered separately. The EMPI rear kits use the same cast caliper as ALL of the other kits I have seen (CSP excluded)

AirKewld kits need to be trial fit for cleance, spaced out (using supplied washer??) for rotor / caliper clearance, and the HOWL like crazy.

EMPI kits I sell the most, they are the cheapest, then CSP, then Airkewld.

For people who want something different I make a Wilwood 4 piston (front and rear) kit that uses a steel (or fancy Airkewld) rotor.

My main concern is replacement parts availability, and EMPI is the only ones I know I can get off the shelf at the local Autozone if needed. The Wilwood and CSP ones need to be ordered.

[JTR70]

Thanks for the insight Greg! This will help a lot of guys out who are trying to make a decision. You mentioned AirKewld kits "Howl"; is that due to the cross-drilled rotors or the Harmonics that are set up due to its basic design? Thanks again! Don't forget to post a link to your website! Justin

[mr. warehouse]

No problem.
I don't think the cross drilling is the reason for the howl, I think it's the material used, or the coating... Not all the kits do this, just some. It's the same sound I hear when a "full show" car with chromed rotors is driving at low speeds and hits the brakes.

[DBCouper]

Four years ago, I installed the EMPI 22-2880 kit on the front of my '58 356 coupe. I think it cost less that $400.00 on sale from J-Bugs. Shipping was a shocker, though. This kit is really heavy!!

The kit was essentially a plug-n-play operation, and went on without a hitch. My only concerns were that the original bracket mounting bolts didn't thread into the knuckle as far as I'd like for them to. The casting is thicker than the drum brake backing plate, even with the recesses that are machined into it to accept the bolt heads. The recesses are really tight, too. I had to grind down a socket to get into it. It is impossible to safety-wire the bolt heads, so I used blue Loctite on them.

The flexible brake hoses that come with the kit are too long. I had to use the original 356 hoses, which also were longer than necessary. The angle that they attach to the caliper causes them to rub on the tire with the wheels turned. I solved that by loosely zip-tying the hoses to the tie rods. A better solution would be a flexible hose with a 90 degree male end on it. Haven't been able to find one, though.

Additionally, I disassembled the master cylinder that came with the kit to check for a residual pressure check valve. It did have one, which may account for disc brake dragging and overheating that people complain about with these kits. I removed it, and installed a metric RPV that I bought from CB Performance in the rear drum brake line. I'll be opting for a dual circuit master cylinder soon, and will continue to use the external RPV in the rear brake line, if I don't convert the rear to discs, too.

This conversion has worked flawlessly, and pad wear is minimal. No longer do I have to worry about which ditch I'm gonna head for when I stab the brakes.

I've recently bought the EMPI rear disc brake conversion kit #22-2906 for about $335.00 plus shipping (again, a real shocker). Did I mention that these kits are REALLY HEAVY? It will not install without some serious modification. The rear shock absorber is in the way of the designed mounting position. It looks like I'll have to design and build a new bracket to attach to the axle tube flange, but haven't yet decided where I want to position the caliper .... if it is even possible. The caliper with the e-brake is really wide. It would probably be easier without the e-brake option.

Dave

[JTR70]

Hey Dave,

Thanks for joining us and welcome to our forum!! I was wondering what the weight might be on those kits since they are cast iron. Your description of the rear kit leads me to believe that these were designed for type 1 VW and are being offered as "356 kits". The rear shock location on a bug is forward of the axle where the 356 is at the back of the tube. Did I understand your fitment issue correctly? The Shock needs to be on the opposite side to work? Pictures are of course always great.
Welcome once again!!! Justin

[DBCouper]

Thanx for the welcome mat, Justin! I've been lurking ever since we exchanged e-mails following a thread I started on The Registry about 16 months ago concerning a deer that I hit. You introduced me to your board, and I enjoyed the e-mail exchange. The members on this board, though, are so experienced and savvy that I hadn't found anything I felt comfortable contributing, until now.

Both front and rear kits that I bought are strictly Type 1 VW items. Vendors have made no suggestions that they would fit a 356. I just decided to take a chance, considering the similarities between the two cars. Since the front conversion was so effortless, I've now jumped in on the rear. I studied many photos of the rear kit for years, and recognized that there may be issues. But, without the parts in my hand, it was impossible to get a really good feel about it. I just received the kit a couple of days ago. I'm reluctant to tear the drum brakes off yet, because both outside ends of my rear axles are bone-dry with no leaks. So far, I'm just crawling around under the car, exploring mounting potential, which hasn't been encouraging.

As you mentioned, the rear-mounted shocks on the 356 are the problem.
That was difficult to forsee without a bracket and caliper in hand. And, I don't want to alter the rear suspension geometry by moving the shocks. That leaves only two possibilities that I can see. The caliper may fit between the spring plate and the lower shock mount, but that location would make bleeding the brakes a real bitch, and would require fabricating a new caliper mounting bracket. Another choice might be on top at 12 0'clock, but that would entail removing the bump stop and somehow moving it inboard. Even with the bump stop removed, the clearance would be tight, at best. Brake hydraulic lines will also need to be modified, but Summit Racing carries a large line of Russell fittings which should make that pretty simple.

To tell the truth, if my rear brake drums weren't so "lumpy" due to galvanic corrosion between the aluminum drum and the iron liner, I'd have been perfectly satisfied with the drum/disc combination, and would leave it that way. But I found that it would cost over a grand to have my drums re-lined, and this seemed like a good alternative. So far, though, it's been frustrating. I'm in no hurry, so maybe I'll find a parts vendor with a solution. Or, maybe the aircraft surplus place?

I'm a real Bozo when it comes to posting photos, but I do have one of the front kit installed. I didn't shoot any while doing the job. I have a hard enough time concentrating on what I'm doing. The front kit I used appears to be identical to the top photo that you attached to your original post. That kit is currently listed by Cip1.com for $499.95, and they are running a 15% off sale thru March.

There are two EMPI kits for Type 1 VW swing-axle rear. #22-2905 fits the short swing-axle (which, with the exception of the shock mount, is virtually identical to the 356). #22-2906 has a 4" longer e-brake cable and a spacer to place under the axle nut to accomodate for the "long-snout" brake drum/rotor of the long-axle and IRS Bugs. Otherwise, they are identical. I bought 2906 for the longer cable .... don't need the spacer. Another thing that I've noticed is that the 2905/2906 EMPI mounting bracket is thicker than the 356 brake backing plate. If memory serves me, the plate is about 4.5 mm thick. The kit bracket is 6 mm thick. That would require a big stack of shims to set the 0.1 mm bearing drift, and might cause interference between the rotor and bearing cap. So, if I don't fabricate a new bracket, this one will have to be machined down thinner.

My wife threw out our "lying bathroom scale", so I'll have to borrow one from a neighbor. The rear kit is still in it's box, so I'll weigh it and post later. I would imagine that the front kit is heavier (if that's possible), due to the cast iron caliper mounting bracket. But the front calipers are smaller with larger pads.

Dave

[JTR70]

My pleasure Dave!
Quote: The members on this board, though, are so experienced and savvy that I hadn't found anything I felt comfortable contributing, until now.


Nah, we are fortunate enough to have a couple of resident professionals like Bruce Baker and Jack Staggs but for the most part we are all just DIY-hobbiests much like yourself with a true passion for the early Porsches and always on the "learning curve".

The required modification you're describing certainly sounds par for the course, anytime your retro fitting a new part seems at least one or two custom "link" parts will have to be fabricated to make it all work for your application. A smart approach on your part to NOT modify the car to fit the new parts but make the parts work with the car. By your description it all sounds doable after a fair amount of time is invested into engineering it all. I know your in no hurry but let us know how your getting on with it. Justin

[AMP]

My pleasure Dave!
Quote: The members on this board, though, are so experienced and savvy that I hadn't found anything I felt comfortable contributing, until now.


Nah, we are fortunate enough to have a couple of resident professionals like Bruce Baker and Jack Staggs but for the most part we are all just DIY-hobbiests much like yourself with a true passion for the early Porsches and always on the "learning curve".

The required modification you're describing certainly sounds par for the course, anytime your retro fitting a new part seems at least one or two custom "link" parts will have to be fabricated to make it all work for your application. A smart approach on your part to NOT modify the car to fit the new parts but make the parts work with the car. By your description it all sounds doable after a fair amount of time is invested into engineering it all. I know your in no hurry but let us know how your getting on with it. Justin

Justin, that's a great summation of the process - should be in all the books on restoration or DIY work on cars.

[Jack Staggs]

To tell the truth, if my rear brake drums weren't so "lumpy" due to galvanic corrosion between the aluminum drum and the iron liner, I'd have been perfectly satisfied with the drum/disc combination, and would leave it that way. But I found that it would cost over a grand to have my drums re-lined...

You might want to talk to this guy: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1408893

[admin]

who makes them, thanks