Disc Brake conversion kits for 356

[Restomod]

Mark I have not installed or driven a set of the china kits but I have looked one over pretty good and it seems to be good stuff. Like most china stuff it all comes down to the quality of the spec it was built to.
I cant afford $2k just in brakes at this point so the cheap kits will be the way I go.

[JTR70]

Hey Mark, I think the alloy hub is black anodize but the steel rotor is probably a black oxide finish. Its gone after two Stop signs but it keeps the edges and the brake pad non-contact points on the rotor from rusting. Also looks really cool when you pull them out the box for the first time.

A cool looking small to wide adapter...

[merbesfield]

I hear you. 2K for brakes is tall. I only wish I had considered these kits before I did all the work I did on the original brakes. No it's too late for me to go back. Too much invested, time and money.

[AMP]

I've been in the brake business for almost 20 years and although we do not sell street brake kits I have some experience with this and the hardware involved. This is only my opinion so take it for what value you feel it has.

To make a very basic comparison of the potential stopping power of the different systems pictured in this thread you would need some specific information including caliper piston diameter and master cylinder piston diameter. You could assume that all the rotors were close to the same diameter both OD and ID. The area of the pad surface has nothing to do with the torque the system will make. However more friction material volume will give longer life. There are other factors involved but for a simple comparison you could look at piston diameter in the caliper and master cylinder and calculate clamping force for a given hydraulic pressure. Treat the single piston sliding caliper as though it is a two piston caliper ( multiply the area of the single piston times two) if you are comparing it to one of the two piece two piston calipers.

These different systems have one of three basic types of calipers. There is the single piston sliding caliper which are cast iron, there looks to be one kit with a cast iron two piston two piece caliper (Air Kewled kit) and there are several kits that have Wilwood, CNC or other make aluminum two piece calipers.

The cast iron calipers are more than likely OEM calipers that are purchased from a company that re manufacturers them or that are copies out of China. There also are caliper manufactures in the US, such as Lone Star Caliper in Texas but I'm not sure if they make any of these. The good thing about these calipers is that there are different pads available for them probably at any auto parts store.

The aluminum calipers are very old designs that for the most part are used on dirt track race cars and grass roots road racing cars and for reasons i dont get, in street car brake kits. The bad thing about this is that there is no pad availability in a good street compound with low noise and dust (to my knowledge - if there is I stand corrected). Also you will have to order pads from an online source and most only sell them in racing compounds.
Also, unlike the OEM calipers these calipers have no dust boots and were never designed for the rigors of street driving where you expect them to go the distance of the typical Toyota brake system.

Beyond all that the aluminum calipers will be more flexible than the iron calipers. The 4 piston aluminum calipers are what's called Dynalite calipers and all take the same pad. You typically see those on dirt late models, off road race cars and other grass roots race cars. The two piston aluminum calipers are called Dynalite Single. They are designed for the front wheel of a midget or sprint car, a sand rail or a very light weight SCCA racer or other light weight applications. IMHO I would never put those on a street car. These calipers are very inexpensive. If you are only going to drive around under the speed limit and you don't drive in the mountains maybe you could get by with this stuff.

Most of the kits using the aluminum calipers have very light weight and to my thinking not very rigid caliper mounting brackets. I'm guessing that under heavy braking in a car with two people in it you might experience some vibration.

Also most of the aluminum caliper kits have drilled rotors of questionable origin. And some of the hubs look very suspect from the stand point of strength. I am not assuming you are building a race car but only that you may do some "spirited" driving - otherwise why would you be considering a brake "upgrade".

The CNC kit has an interesting looking hub and I can't tell if its aluminum or iron. Otherwise the iron caliper kits all look to have the same hub and rotor.

IMHO, if you are looking for reliability and low maintenance I would go with one of the iron caliper kits.

I like everything about the Air Kewled kit except the rotors. Drilled rotors crack from thermal cycles and they wear the pads more.

Zim's has sold a lot of his kits and that would be a safe choice. I'm guessing he uses high quality components and he has good customer feedback.

This is only a brief look into the brake kit issue and its filled with opinionated views but also this is a good thread where folks have gone to the trouble to post pictures of a lot of the kits. Very interesting.

Considerations for my money would be the brake pad issue mentioned above and the rotors. If I was considering the Air Kewled kit I would want it without drilled rotors and I would want to know more about the aluminum hubs and the history or feedback from customers. I would not consider any of the light weight "sand rail" type kits.

[JTR70]

Ashely, Thank you for that insightful overview. Eveything you said makes perfect sense and arms any potential buyer in the market for one of these kits with a better fundamental understanding. I agree that the sand car stuff is too light for a street car but some of the stuff is so pretty that it makes for an interesting photo. Ashely I think I heard it mentioned that you are involved with the NASCAR industry. Is that correct? Thanks again for the education! Justin

old Maico annular type disc brake conversion for VW and/or Porsche. I believe this kit was introduced in the late 1960's. Cool looking,Too bad they never offered a rear kit...

[AMP]

Thanks Justin. I agree with your commit on the sand rail stuff. I should have been clearer on that. It sounds like I was critical overall. What I was trying to get across applied only to using the parts on a car like the 356 or heavier car.

Those parts are no doubt good used in their intended market. CNC has been around for a long time and is well thought of in the off road market. Wilwood also has a very good reputation and my company has a great relationship with them. We sell their products.

We test brakes and brake components of all kinds and manufacturer a lot of brake components. For years NASCAR has been our primary market but we are also involved in road racing and vintage racing. The picture below is of a 917 or 73 RSR caliper that we manufacturer. We have the castings done outside and do all the machine work in house. They have been on a lot winning cars in the FIA vintage races in Europe.

[AMP]

I think that Maico brake is really cool. In the past I tried to track down information on that but hit nothing but dead ends.

That would make a very nice brake kit for a 356 but, again the problem would be getting pads. The Maico caliper takes a very unique pad and that is one part I could not find.

If you are going to put a brake kit together, especially for street use, the pad and secondly the rotor is where you start. If you use an odd pad or rotor then you are headed down a dead end street.

[merbesfield]

Ashley, thanks for the narrative. It helps quite a bit and makes me realize I am may have been too critical of "all Chinese" products vs. just the poorly made ones. KISS seems to apply here. And that 917/73 RSR caliper is beautiful.

[Restomod]

Ashley,Thanks for the insight! You sort of hit on the master to caliper ratio. Is there a formula to figure that? I just bought a sand type pedal assembly (no masters) and wanted to run the Wilwood (1" bore) dual master cyl.(# 260-7563) on the brake and a smaller single res on the clutch.
This Wilwood is for 4 wheel brakes but I have no idea if the ratio would be correct.
Thanks in advance for any help!!

[AMP]

Mark, So far as the made in China brake hardware I come into contact with some is good and some not so good - pretty much like everywhere else. For me the issue is that you cannot tell what is what until you try it and I don't like the odds.

A few years ago we wanted to offer a cheep rotor to a specific market but could never pull the trigger on the Chinese product because we were skeptical of consistent quality or assurance that our iron alloy specification would be met every time or even once!

Such is the plight of a small business trying to do business in China.

At the end of the day we remain proud that our own brand is American made. Also somewhat ashamed that, had it worked out, we might also have some made in China parts too! (but we would not have hid the fact that they were made in China.) One of our vendors offers some cheep Chinese rotors and we sell them into the market mentioned above. They are a proven quantity and the track record of performance is good. They are sold as Chinese rotors without hiding the place or origin. They can make some very nice parts in China (and some very bad stuff too).

[AMP]

[quote="Restomod" post=9745]Ashley,Thanks for the insight! You sort of hit on the master to caliper ratio. Is there a formula to figure that? I just bought a sand type pedal assembly (no masters) and wanted to run the Wilwood (1" bore) dual master cyl.(# 260-7563) on the brake and a smaller single res on the clutch.
This Wilwood is for 4 wheel brakes but I have no idea if the ratio would be correct.
Thanks in advance for any help!!

I have a spread sheet that will let you compare those components. Send me an email and I will send it to you. apage@prosystembrakes.com

[Restomod]

Got your email
Thanks

[JTR70]

Ashely, thanks again! A regular consumer like myself would not have even considered the availability of pads or rotors until of course it was time to replace them. In all honesty My considerations would have been quality, how trick are they and can I afford them. I am enjoying my new education on aftermarket brakes.

You're making those 917/935 calipers?? Those are absolutely gorgious! Same as a 930 but without the cooling fins correct? I've seen those advertised through Zuffenhausen; they are your distributor then?
Thanks! Justin

[merbesfield]

Again, I should have done a bit more home work on how easy it is to perform this cool upgrade and still be able to run wide fives w disc's. All the while having the ability to reverse the mod at any time for value reasons or just a change of mind. I guess I could sell off all my newly refurbished wheel cylinders and other parts such as shoes and recoup so money. I did use the stainless pistons. Thoughts?

[Trevor]

Justin - That's funny, replacement pads were the first thing I thought of... a testament to the time I've spent at Jack's.

On a side note: I was helping him once re-do some oil lines to a breather box on a split window VW bus and replace some hardware (bolts for screws for easier accessibility to get a wrench on) and I commented to him, "wow this is going to be really nice now for the next guy who works in here" (the engine compartment), his response was classic Jack - "WE are the next guys".

Sorry for slight thread detour.