1957 Sandblasted Coupe

[ukinusa]

OK now I am expanding my metal repairs to include a new floor I have a simple question that may not have a straightforward answer !

On page 67 (figure 36) of Restored by Hand, Ron seems to indicate the tunnel is mounted first and then the whole assembly is "bowed" to install, am I misreading?

[ukinusa]

That repair section of dubious profile - I sent pictures to Restoration D. asking for comments - will report back.!

[John Pierce]

The floor can be installed either with or without the tunnel in place. It depends upon how much repair your tunnel needs. Justin removed his whole tunnel, repaired it on the bench, installed the floors then reinstalled the tunnel. If the tunnel doesn't need extensive repairs it can be left in place and repaired, then install the floors. These need a bit of a curve to get up and inside the perimeter flanges. Then the bottom of the floor is jacked up against the tunnel to get a tight fit for rosette welding.

HTH.

JP

[ukinusa]

Well that solves it then & thanks. I didn't have tunnel at all when I got the car shell, it had been cut out and tossed so have a brand new one to fit. New floor and new tunnel

[bbspdstr]

The tunnel is the lowest part of the 356 under the cockpit, per Ron's book's illustration. I usually have the tunnel in (as I rarely need to take one out) and do the perimeter repairs, all, a la Ron's book (sorta).

The quickest way is to 'shoehorn' each half of the floor into place separately by placing the well-measured and trimmed part ON one side flange, under the lower flanges of the tunnel and then pushing up from below with jacks and a board under the middle of the tunnel after the center transverse 'humps' are aligned over/under each other to create the strengthening 'tube'. When centered and snug to the tunnel's two fore/aft flanges, TEC-screw from middle to front and to rear on each side.

Then, I push down in the middle of each outer side and screw there, then the opposite side, then back to the first outer side and do one front and one rear on each side.....'lacing' the floor from all middle points of the 6 sides to keep it flat and wrinkle-free.

I went to an art school, so stretching a canvas onto a frame (with only 4 sides) was done this way and a 356 floor is very similar, only the center tunnel is involved and where the sequence begins.

I modified a couple of big Visegrips to work over the inner longitudinal and even a rocker threshold to begin this fastening procedure. I punch holes in the floor edges and fill those and also use the screw holes as welding points.

So, do the front bulkhead (very hard to get right at the compounded corners due to 'close, but no cigar' repro forming of both floor pressings and/or bulkhead repros).

Then the rear bulkhead repair (I'd try to find the whole section from a parts donor or get a bunch of photos and measurements to use) and THEN the tunnel fastened where it is to stay...and then, when everything is dressed and set, add the floors.

I won't bother everyone with the long version of being given a NOS floor that was Factory assembled with about a thousand spotwelds securing the two halves.....and how the car's owner wanted if installed "the correct way," but suffice it to say....it was impossible without either drilling out those thousand welds or (sh-h-h-h) cutting the front a convenient amount off, 'shoehorning it in' and then carefully welding it back together so no one could tell. Ta-da! "Just like the Factory did it!

I do not remember how Ron recommended getting the bow in the floor to work with the lower flanges of the tunnel. I place a 2x6 on the (shop)floor and just walk on the inverted sheet metal floor, back and forth, carefully, on both sides of the middle. It doesn't need much of a break for each side of the tunnel, but it helps with installation and fastening.

Be aware of a repro floor that has too high a center transverse 'hump.' a perfect half-round is unoriginal and looks funny on the underside and top-side will mess with clearance under seats and mats, not to mention not having clearance in the tunnel side where it passes through. Just know it's a problem and ask the vendor of choice if theirs is 'lower' with a gradual end that tapers down, not a perfect quarter-spherical end to a perfect half-round, 'cause that just won't fool a hard-core 356er after ya go to all that trouble. Make sure it is not a "one size (pattern) fits all" and that it is close to 'model-specific.' We got away with that 30 years ago, but not now.

-Bruce

[bbspdstr]

One more thing: when the seat mounting supports, platforms or 'pods,' are to be installed, be sure the draw of the rear pans are measured and compared to originals and those mounts modified accordingly. If the seat rails are not on the same plane, outer as on the tunnel, perhaps some shimming will work, perhaps not (you can't shim things closer, just farther apart).

I have measured as much as 11mm difference from original and repro rear floor pans, the repro being more shallow. One must then section the mounts for the seat rails, as those repros are usually just like the originals. Welcome to....... Repro World......

Mock-up and measure the seat mounting parts so not just width of rails is OK, but the angles fore/aft are also.

Seats will adjust part way and jam if all the mounting is not just right, and that includes those tracks on the seat bottom pans. It's no fun to get everything done and find that the seats don't slide.....

Check all while building the chassis/floor/etc. Plan ahead. The rule of thumb in restoration is to not really completely finish anything until everything is tacked/fastened and 'proofed' as correctly interfacing with any other part or function...that way there are LESS 'surprises' when all is finally done.

-Bruce

[JTR70]

I agree with Jonesy and Bruce it is an either or thing, not both concerning that lower frame gusset. If you have the outer reinforcement originally there won't be one on the inside so you don't have to worry about that inner channel Steve. Above is 1957 Speedster 83142 a T1 Beehive car with outer gusset and no signs of an inner reinforcement channel. My limited knowledge of exposure tells me that the "inner" channel was replaced with this outer gusset sometime in early 1957. January, Feb.??)

This is later 1956 production T1 coupe #57976 with the inner gusset.


This is T1 coupe #58367 completed in late December 1956 but designated model year 1957. Still utilizing the "inner" U-channel gusset.

I also believe another coincided change was to the bumper bracket housing as it ran all the way up to the suspension horn on cars with the early "inner" gusset.

Once the outer gusset was introduced the bumper bracket housing was cut short of the suspension. This car originally had the shortened housings and the short version repro housings are all I've ever seen offered.

[merbesfield]

Thanks Bruce and Justin, we are all paying attention. Lots to think about before firing up that welder.

[bbspdstr]

I am still learning, too. No one can ever know it all but collectively, we all know more. I love this stuff and Justin's site and sharing has been a tonic for jaded ol' me. I give thanks for that.

I just reread Tom Perazzo's offerings and he, too, is showing, picturing, what I was trying to describe in my writing, so we all need to check every posting, even reading back in long threads. In fact, like last night, I stay up too late doing that...to learn from others.

Justin may relate to this....tomorrow, I am painting a Speedster silver.....panels together and on the car after the jambs were cut in.

Happy Short Week to all and Happy Thanksgiving!

-Bruce

[ukinusa]

Wow guys thanks for all this information - it comes clear now ! That full length bumper bracket is a clear 'tell tale' about the change in design including the new outer bracket, Justin as ever ..THANK you.

And Bruce thanks for the clarity on the floor panels, I am some ways off doing them, but feel a lot better now about what I am facing. I will be focusing on the 'four ledges' now and getting them sorted first, the pedal box front area being the man focus right now.

I am upside down with the car for the first time, rolled over my self in the small garage, sliding it back at each 'rotation'. A rotisserie would have been nice but that's 20/20 ! It presents such different perspective !

[Jonesy_356]

Steve, is it just me or were you nervous the first time you rolled it over?! I was just waiting for it to fall on its head. It makes things so much easier and I think is more space efficient than a rotisserie. I have found I only need to change positions every few weeks. Only occasionally multiple rolls for one job...most times the bit needed to finish that you jjuuussstt can't get to is happy to wait until the next time it is in that position.

You'll have that pedal panel finished in no time mate,

Thanks for sharing,

Jonesy

[ukinusa]

Yepp I was a trifle edgy to be sure, especially has I had changed the front mounts from torsion bar bolts to 2 x U clamps over the torsion tube itself, to give me access to the V plate. But it went ok. One unexpected benefit was that sand poured out of the roof supports from when it blasted all those years ago. So maybe that could be a recommendation for anyone else contemplating a sand blast !

And then I got the first piece tacked in, which was a great step for me and started cleaned up the front mounting area for the replacement V plate.

[Jonesy_356]

Nice fresh steel! It's a great feeling to be making headway with repairs. Keep up the great work mate.

J

[JTR70]

I am still learning, too. No one can ever know it all but collectively, we all know more. I love this stuff and Justin's site and sharing has been a tonic for jaded ol' me. I give thanks for that.

I just reread Tom Perazzo's offerings and he, too, is showing, picturing, what I was trying to describe in my writing, so we all need to check every posting, even reading back in long threads. In fact, like last night, I stay up too late doing that...to learn from others.

Justin may relate to this....tomorrow, I am painting a Speedster silver.....panels together and on the car after the jambs were cut in.

Happy Short Week to all and Happy Thanksgiving!

-Bruce

Too true Bruce, No one of us can know all there is to know but I think both you and Jack are a lot closer to that title than the rest of us are. That was just my "tidbit side dish" I picked up and wanted to share to contribute to our little 356 smorgasbord we've got going. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and tips with us! Hope that Silver went on nice for you.

Looking good Steve, Yeah, for a single car space a rotisserie would serve you better there. Either way it is an absolute luxury to be able to turn the car over while you rust repair. Keep up the great progress!
Happy Thanks Giving to everyone!
Justin

[bbspdstr]

.....One unexpected benefit was that sand poured out of the roof supports from when it blasted all those years ago. So maybe that could be a recommendation for anyone else contemplating a sand blast!

That surely is a benefit of some sort of way to roll a shell over, the blast medium can be removed more effectively. It is also beneficial for the blasting if the person blasting can see what they are doing...and that includes the trimming off of areas and sections or parts that don't need blasting. Less time blasting = less money charged. If major parts like longitudinals are to be removed anyway, why not before the blasting so the insides of what's staying gets cleaned?

Open cars: some bracing required, of course.

Also, the air pressure/volume required for the actual blasting also makes for the best "blowing out" AFTER blasting of the nooks and crannies if done at all angles. It's amazing how much debris is still falling out even if cleaned at each flip.

The blaster who knows this is also the one who won't warp any panels. If you are doing the blasting yourself, just know to keep moving and come back to a stubborn area again and again until clean. Blasting friction produces heat and heat warps metal.

The man I use now (blasters who do cars come and go and be careful using a company that specializes in swimming pools and bridges) uses crushed glass as his medium of choice but will go to Black Beauty or aluminum oxide for tough rust and I give him full shells on a rotisserie, all parts separate....and so far, no warpage and they come back clean...epoxy primed in a light "shop coat" if I ask nicely.

Bruce