'63 356B T-6 Rebuild

[John Pierce]

Good question. I have the two pieces clamped together. As the nose is the piece that needs to be cut I have to contort myself and backhand the Dremel through the headlight aperture to make the cut of only the nose. I can tell you that my back is feeling it!

[Jack Staggs]

Nice work on the rhinoplasty, John.
My kid brother ,who works as a graphics designer, commented recently on how soft my hands felt compared to his after a handshake. I explained that I don't wear gloves at work and that I scrub them thoroughly each night with pumice soap (Lava), and a good going over with a bristle brush (you may want to start out with a good pumice stone) until all traces of dirt, callouses, and cracked/dead skin is removed, a complete exfoliation, even on the knuckles. One of the tricks is to dig my fingernails into the bar of soap, packing them with soap before scraping them out. You won't achieve perfection the first time. It's just like everything else in life, it's all about the reps. I follow this procedure every day, even on my days off. The whole procedure usually takes less than 5 minutes. I've been complemented several times over my career (45+ years) by folks that have friends/ family in my field on the condition of my hands.

[Jonesy_356]

I can honestly say that I am learning things that I never thought I would learn by reading this thread!

[bbspdstr]

..........yeah, like how OC some of us can be about certain things.

IF your non-macho hands still get cracks (some bleeding required before paying attention to them) wrap the worst fingers with masking tape, the official first aid of any bodyshop. After work, apply Zim's Crack-creme (really, there is such a product and Al won't admit to producing it). Next day, start over. Winter is the worst, so SoCal or other climes without winter can ignore this advice.

Back to cutting through the two layers of overlapping metal:

Clamping is fine, but once set, a less movable fastening is recommended. A #30 drill and a Cleco reusable pin or a simple self-drilling screw here and there works best (for me, others may have other ideas). I've also tack-welded the edge of an overlap on the new panel to be ground off as the slicing is proceeding.

Then, the intended cut line is drawn or taped (and dyslectic me immediately marks which side of the tape to follow) and a small (short)slice is made with a Dremel or thin-thin 3.5" disc so a saw blade can be used on the majority of the cut. An air-saw works well, as 1/16" is a goal so whatever welding method used has room to allow the swelling of the edges toward each other and allow some hammer/dolly work to get it just right as it cools, a little at a time.

As you slice, the unfastened unwanted metal gets rolled away and a tack is placed (usually MIG) to secure the gap as you go. A small thin old junk screwdriver helps with leveling. Check, check, check all the time.

When finished.....go wash your hands!

-Bruce

[Phil Planck]

I can attest to Bruce's method, as that is what he taught me. It works. I have used it several places on Foam Car, most recently(a relative term after 12 years) was replacing most of the passenger fender.

BTW, great work and stick tuitiveness John. Due to major shop rearrange to get access to my PreA engine, Foam Car is waiting in the wings.

Phil

[bbspdstr]

Another story to bore everyone with;

In my earliest days of old Porsche fixin'-up, I was approached by a local Prominent Plastic Surgeon who wanted to do the resto of his own Speedster. I remember this being when my now-44 year-old son was an infant, so this is not new.

He would call and 'pick my brain' for all sorts of things. Regularly. What welder to buy where, what tools to buy, what parts sources were best for what he was doing. A LOT of "how do I do this..." I gave a LOT of free advice and time from what I was learning from the old pros that were still mentoring me.

Years went by and I heard that the doc's Speedster was being done in another shop...a shop started by a guy who had spun off from mine. (We do not train good employees, we train our competition )

The doc had never done his car because his wife FORBID his endangering his well-insured hands, as he was making far too much money reshaping noses or tits, etc. to do his Porsche....and that made sense.....but MY nose was out of joint that after all the time and advice I had given him, he didn't hire me to do his Speedster but fell for the old "I'll do it just as well...and cheaper" scam from an ex-employee.

And such is life.....
-Bruce

[Don C]

Bruce,
IMO you had good reason to be pissed off!
Thanks for all the advice you give to us here, I'm learning a lot.
Regards,
Don

[John Pierce]

This New Hampshire winter has been fabulous for skiing. Not so much for working on the 356 in an unheated garage when the temps start in the single digits and only get up to the teens. I bought a sunroof clip this past fall and unfortunately all the small parts were missing. It's been fun tracking all the stuff down as everything but the seals are NLA. Of course anything with the Porsche name on it brings top dollars and the Golde Porsche sunroofs have unique parts that other marques don't use. I spent the last week making a new headliner frame and reinforcement piece for the sliding portion.



Measurements.



Top view.



Bottom view.

I'm going to rebuild the sunroof transmission next, restore the aluminum rails and then fit everything together. It won't be installed until after the chassis is restored and the floors are in so the car is as stable as possible.

Thanks for looking.

[Jack Staggs]

Nice work John. Please be careful when installing the headliner piece. A few years ago, a car came in for sunroof repair. Years ago, the drive cables were not available so someone installed VW bus cables. They worked ok, but the angle of the end piece is at a different angle, which eventually tore through the headliner on the sunroof part. No problem, I thought. I replaced the cables with some used ones that I had (no new ones were available at the time) and had the headliner on the sliding part replaced. All good, yeah? Not so fast... the headliner kept popping out of the track and binding the mechanism. Humm. When I compared the existing frame to a known original, I came to find out that someone had narrowed the headliner frame in an attempt to make it slide. OK, so I drilled out the welds and widened it to factory spec and had the headliner covered once again. All good, no? NO!!! The down side of this is that when the sunroof binds up, it is nearly impossible to free it up without damage. After many hours of close inspection, I realized that the sliding panel had been installed been installed upside down. The differences are subtle, but it won't work that way. So another trip to the upholsterers to fit the 3rd headliner on the correct side, after re-bending/aching the frame. I'm sure that I had everything completely disassembled at least a dozen times. All has been working well since. Saw the car last week, still working perfectly.
So put it all together, including sliding panel upholstered after it is known to work, before you have the remaining headliner and paint done.
The next problem is fitting the felt seals. I typically use the 911 ones ( black felt) although i have used Volvo (grey) ones.The 911 have a fat one to fit around the forward 3/4 of the opening, with a slightly thinner piece to go across the back side where the sunroof panel jumps up to give a flush fit. It's very difficult to make the pieces look seamless when the sunroof is closed. The forward felt needs to be angled down lower at the rear, and the rear piece will have to be trimmed blunt to make a perfect mating. Depending on the roof opening, a thick piece might fit better at the rear, but if it gets pinched on closing, a thin piece may work better. All depends on the fit of the metal sunroof panel. The best advice I can give is to put the entire assembly together to work perfectly, and don't allow too much paint material to build up around the edges. Use new felt strips for final assembly after figuring out what you need.
Shim stack for the motor/clutch is another issue... Believe me, I've been there.
Good luck.
Jack

[John Pierce]

Jack you have become the expert SR installer! What's funny is that I read every post available on the Registry, Pelican Parts and TheSamba forums and your single post nicely summarizes the multitude of posts I had to wade through to get your pearls. Your insight is much appreciated.

I spent the last few hours taking apart the SR transmission, cleaning it and putting it back together. I was amazed at the number of parts that are involved and need to work together....like a swiss watch. I'm definitely going to fit everything before any headliner installation.

[Phil Planck]

I'm going to be watching for a sunroof clip from NH on Ebay for the next week or so . Great winter project and advice from Jack.

Phil

[John Pierce]

Hah! For the amount of work I put into finding these parts and time and effort restoring them.....it won't be on eBay anytime soon. The fun part will be cutting into my virgin 356 roof. It's the only part of the car that's NOT rusty

[Jack Staggs]

number 29 seem to be missing
http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-parts/hardparts.php?dir=356-60-65&section=811-05

[John Pierce]

Good eye, Jack. We're getting another 18" of snow today so I was planning to make that piece today from 22 gauge CRS. I'll see if that gauge is too thick and if necessary go smaller. Do you know the thickness of the metal that was used, or even better, an extra piece I could purchase?

[Jack Staggs]

The piece is likely thinner than 22 gauge and more importantly, is made of hardend steel to be able to endure the rigors of sunroof operation. It has a slightly asymmetrical design which is crucial to it's job. I don't think that this part is specific to only 356. Here is a link to a VW part that is more complex, but perhaps the little center part could be trimmed out and made to work.
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=117877373