'63 356B T-6 Rebuild

[John Pierce]

Thanks Bruce! I couldn't fathom doing it without all the wisdom everyone offers here.

I'm starting to mock up the heater ducts and like usual nothing is original on my car and the landmarks are gone.



The usual Bubba fix.



Flex pipe on the inside with a loose clamp trying to hold it all together.



Oval template from new 60 mm steel pipe.



Flanged.



Pretty good initial fit.



The next step is where to place the two longitudinal heater reinforcement plates. This is a B T-6 so the heater muffler needs to fit between the two plates. Does anyone know the center to center distance between the two plates? Also, where is the front plate placed in relationship to a landmark? A potential landmark could be the rear of the floor heater tube or the top of the horizontal tube where it's welded to the vertical pipe.




I appreciate the help.

John

[bbspdstr]

I could only take a minute to take a picture but I hope these will help, even if upside-down.

[John Pierce]

So that's what the inside is supposed to look like!! It's nice to have a wall of original parts to compare to. My vertical pipe that's supposed to be inside the A-pillar seams to stop at the sill. Oops.

Thanks for posting and for taking the measurements when you can.


JP

[roy mawbey]

John,

You are doing so well with this work. So difficult when you have nothing much to follow. Like Justin has already found either NOS formed items or friends like Bruce who might have them to help is so important. It must be really pleasing to suddenly see before your eyes an original part when before you could only guess what it actually really looked like.

I can't imagine how if you did this work for a living and did not have access to original parts, or drawings, just how the devil could you quote for the work in hand. Also of course most of these items are hidden from sight till you open the can of worms.

Well done indeed on that torsion bar area, you must be pleased with that. Like Justin also provides you upload super photos as well.

Roy

[JTR70]

Beautiful job on that repair corner John, very clean! Absolutely Roy, NOS reference metal like Bruce has is pure Gold...Which is why he keeps it on hand. Justin

[bbspdstr]

John, I'm sorry but I must get ready for a trailer run a few states away (you may have heard of Connecticut? ) and also do not want to hold you up...so until I return and you can wait and I can measure, I'd suggest "fakin' it."

Or maybe someone else can offer some more concise positioning?

Of all places, the inside of a longitudinal allows such heresy. Use a "guess" from my picture of the bare part with the vertical oval of the floor area's slightly-somewhat-heated air's entrance and your muffler tube and build accordingly with the support baffles where they need to be as referenced in the other picture (with the muffler installed). You can be 19-25mm off one way or the other and all will work. There is nothing else going on there and no moving parts in that section. Blame it on all these silly cars being Made By Hand....and I wouldn't worry about "the next guy" going in there to do it "better," "next time."

-Bruce

[John Pierce]

Thanks Bruce. There are so many other areas to do on the car that I'll just put this area on hold until you get back and can measure it. The problem with my car is that I don't have original heater mufflers so I'll have to make some. In addition the indented heater hole in the longitudinal is also absent

Have a great trip.

[Don C]

John,
"Restored by Hand" by Ron Roland has a wealth of information and dimensions, I found this:

[Don C]

Sorry the print is next to impossible to read, if you e-mail me I'll try and get better resolution shots and send them to you.
My e-mail: djmc2(at)ptd(dot)net

[John Pierce]

Don,

That's great! Damn, I forgot to look at that book, which I've got on the shelf. I've been up to my armpits fixing the torsion area, which isn't covered in any of the books, that I forgot to check there. Thanks for the reminder. Now to plod onwards......


JP

[bbspdstr]

I actually forget Ron's book myself, yet use it most to solve 'memory issues.' If I can help in any way when I return, like detailed pictures of the oval opening, I'll be happy to. I did not know the full extent of your AWOL details, sorry.
I also have an honest-to-goodness rarity here called a "donor car" of your exact vintage that may have the areas you need L&R. I will look at that when I get back, as well. May be less time and money to get a used section(s) and piece it(them) in.

-Bruce

[Jonesy_356]

I can take some measurements of my BT5 on the weekend if necessary - I am away right now. Great work mate, this link may be of some use as well - John Jones (no relation) from Custom Coach Werks in Colorado did a great job on a '58 and left a great history of his work:

http://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7784&start=195

Jonesy

[Phil Planck]

John
Great input and work. Yes, Roland's book has some good info and tips. I can't add much except 2 things. The location of the rear baffle "might" be exactly the same as the jack spur. Hopefully Bruce and others can confirm this. The factory manual has dimensions to locate the jack spur. One of Roland's tips/methods is to cut the outer longitudinal in two pieces, joining at the rear baffle, which in my case was exactly under the spur. Ron feels this stiffens things up and makes installing the outer long. easier. The other thing is, check the baffle outer flange with the rear and front closing panels to make sure they are all in the same plane. For some reason, my baffles were wider than the originals by 1/16" or so, causing the outer long. to bow out slightly at the baffles. I did not notice this until I installed the rockers. I had to make some modifications to the rockers to "adapt" to this bulge. That rocker issue may be documented in the Foam Car thread.

Phil

[John Pierce]

What is left of my original longitudinal is now removed. Before I can replace it I have to fix the heater tubes.



I wire brushed the surface rust off the front part, which I thought I could save, only to discover multiple scattered rust holes. Plus the metal is quite thin. Time to make a new piece.



I was able to find 60 mm tubing, as original, for the main heater tube, but could not find 40 mm tubing for the floor duct. I bought a piece of 1-1/4" pipe and cut it to the required 40 degrees. The edges were beveled to fit the pipe curvature on an angle grinder held in a vice.



Not too bad a fit.



Completed piece.

Before I weld it in place I've got a couple of questions:

1. Does the heater tube end right at the rear edge of the reinforcement plate (Roland calls it the heater bulkhead) or does it extend rearward beyond the plate for several centimeters? This area was absent on my car so I would be just guessing. Is the heater tube welded to the reinforcement?

2. Do all 356's have the indent at the floor duct in the longitudinal? It seams rather long on this OEM piece. Also, how deep is the indent?




Justin's piece appears more rounded.




Thanks.

John

[JOP]

Morgen John,

As for your Q1,
Yes it passes a couple of cm after the reinforcement plate.
The pipe will have a bigger round end on it. Which fits the "paper muffler".
Sorry I didnt have a photo of it with me.
I have just made "tack" weld on it

Q2,
Yes the T-6 has this BIG indent for outlet flow hole.
See photo.