'63 356B T-6 Rebuild

[John Pierce]

Time for the dreaded torsion/strut region. My '63 is so buggered up in these regions! It's taken a lot of research to figure out how everything fits together here as the available repair manuals pretty much say "Leave it to the experts." The hardest part was undoing all the previous poor repairs, which didn't leave many original landmarks to work with.



After media blasting showing lots of horrible welds and patches all throughout the area. The bondo was so thick in some places it had to be removed with a hammer and chisel.



Rust involved the lower rear bolt tower with much thinning of the metal, which is more like 22 gauge at this point.



My car is a '63 B T-6 so the frame should not be flat plate like the earlier cars. There should be a spot welded flange down the middle where the inner and outer frames meet. The heater tube is also wrong.



The inner corner doesn't look too bad from the outside, but it's hiding the rusted metal that was left in when the patch was welded in place.



A little metal removal shows the previous hack job.



The original overlapping and spot welded inner and outer frames and boltersing pieces are absent on the inside making it much weaker.



A better close up shot of the insides.



Out with the patches and rusted and thinned metal.



The metal fabrication begins. I used the torsion plate to accurately place the lower rear bolt tower. I removed as much rust as I could and then painted all of the cavities with a rust stabilizer.



Patch panel mocked up. I installed these pieces in sections instead of one large piece due to the complex bends and indents.



Looking much better.



Looking from the inside. As you can see, the rear seat pan was also removed as it was Swiss cheese.

Lots of work still left to do. I only focus on a small section at a time or it becomes overwhelming.

Can anyone tell me how far the heating tube sticks out of the inner frame? And is it a straight tube? I've seen a 356 C where the tube sticks out only several inches and is straight. The previous owner of my car welded an angled piece onto the pipes he installed. I want to ensure that I've got enough pipe hanging out so I can clamp on the heating cans.

Thanks for following.

[Don C]

John,
Being that my '65C is up on ramps I went out and took a few shots, hope they help. The heater tube coming out of the chassis is straight, then there is a curved stepped down adapter that connects to the heater can, you can see in the photos.
Regards,
Don

[John Pierce]

Fantastic pictures, Don. Thank you for taking them! It looks like the heater pipe is indeed pretty short. Does the angled adapter piece fit inside or over the heater tube? I can see now what the previous owner of my car did. He welded the adapter right onto the heater tube.

[Jack Staggs]

I believe those angled adaptor pieces are NLA.

[bbspdstr]

I believe those angled adaptor pieces are NLA.

This is the teamwork that makes for better results. The tubes exiting the suspension points are for the "New heater" (Euro) heater air control and the angled reducers were for ROW delivery.
I have some good used examples I can loan for copying as I believe Jack is correct about being hard to find. I have originals I use as patterns that I could loan but I' m away for 10 days!

[Don C]

John,
The adapters fit over the heater tube coming out of the chassis.

[John Pierce]

Thanks Guys for all the info! The replacement S-90 engine I bought for the car does not have the Euro heaters so I'll have to check my pile of parts in the attic to see if I've got those angled pieces. Thanks for the offer Bruce.

These little tidbits of information really help clear up any confusion. Thanks again.

[Phil Planck]

John
Brings back fond memories. Mine not quite as bad, but about as much work, or more. I will look at Foam Car and try to get some shots of that pipe. One area I have not worked on yet. I did remove and restore the cans. Nice work, as usual. Also, on that pinch weld flange that was repaired like an A, there is a special shape at its end that I was able to preserve. Have pics if needed.
Phil

[JTR70]

Beautiful fabrication job on that lower replacement section for the rear torsion housing John! That looks to be a very intricate piece and will no doubt look perfectly seamless in there once your finished. I'm very sympathetic to your predicament of cleaning out all those BS patch panels, what a mess that guy created! Dealing with rust in bad enough but its compounded several times over when trying to peal and clean off work like that. More care and time are a must as you find new base to begin your steel work off of. I think you have more patience than me, really nice job there! Justin

[John Pierce]

A quick update.

Before moving further with the torsion/strut area I had to repair the rear bulkhead floor flange as they meet at the corner.



The floor flange was rusted through so all of it had to be removed. Part of the bulkhead too was thinned out.



The B T-6 center dips down to accommodate the shift linkage, unlike the earlier cars. The floor pan is also stamped with this impression.



Center area looking much better. The floor flange is 1-3/4" wide.



The outer floor flanges repaired.



Seen from the inside where it will meet the longitudinal.

I'm going to next mock up the longitudinal to get the correct floor flange height. The heater tubes inside the longitudinals are shot as is the inner heater muffler. Should I go to the expense and time to build the car like a T-6 with the inner heater muffler or does it matter if I build it like the earlier cars with a solid tube? I guess what I'm asking is: does the heater muffler really reduce the amount of air noise as it travels through the tube? Does the car lose any rigidity without a solid tube?

Thanks.

[Phil Planck]

John
I think everything I have read says you want the muffler to reduce engine noise. I got one from EASY way back, but probably out of them by now. I think the one from a 914 can be modified to bit,, but let's let the experts chime in.
Phil

[neilb]

hi john,

i too have a bt6 coupe and have thought about the same thing as you regards the heater muffler. i chose to buy a perforated tube (for a go cart exhaust silencer) to place inside the heater tube and then pack around it to create a silencer within the solid tube.

its just an option you may not have thought of...

keep up the good work!

[Jack Staggs]

Those are terrific repair pieces for the torsion bar/spring plate, the best that I have ever seen. Did you make them yourself? If so, bravo!
Re heater mufflers/tubes. Pre t5 models used steel pipes in the longs, with a silencer in the longer control valve to reduce noise. Perhaps added chassis stiffness could be a feature, particularly on open cars, or rusty examples. Later models used silencers in the longs, with short control cans. Some folks have used 914 parts in the longs, others used VW pieces there. Both can work, your choice. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a welded on angle piece where the can fits on ala t5/early t6. Just be sure to fit the extension on at the EXACT right angle, and size, so that the can works correctly on installation.

[John Pierce]

Thanks Jack.

My car was built '62, and the previous owner attached those angled pieces as on the earlier cars. Maybe they were original to my car as it was built early in the B T-6 series.

The heater tube mufflers for the B/C cars are still sold by Porsche, but go for $220 each!! That's why I'm questioning whether they reduce the amount of engine noise enough to make them cost effective.



OEM Porsche part.



There is also this part called a "Heater muffler packing washer." Do people think this comes with the muffler assembly or needs to be purchased separately?



The 3rd piece is this metal clamp that hold the muffler in place. This is missing on my car. It looks like it goes around the muffler circumference, but where does it attach to the car to hold it in place?

Thanks.

JP

[JOP]

John,
That was alot of dough for that simple pipe.....
Some people used the vw heater tube in enclosed photo instead of the one you showed.....but then again you could not buy the new replacement tube from Porsche before....
The "gaskets" needs to be bought as well..... The strap goes on the fixed pipes on the 356 after you squezzed the replaycement between the fixed tubing...( like fixing the water hose on ya daily driver )
You do not have any pieces left of the old "muffler" ? I thought maybe you could renovate/repair it.
On my T-6 I just cleaned it all up and covered it with a new outer shell.
/ Per
Yes, they do reduce the noise.... I have droven cars with a steel pipe the whole way and it is noisy!