SC Coupe Restoration

[tperazzo]

Help Help Please!

I fixed the drivers side cowl area with some easy hammer and dolly work to remove a dent caused by the hood flying up.

But before I wrap up the cowl area and install my floors permanently I need to verify something that has been bothering me.

The curvature in the middle of the cowl seems off to me. I've take some pictures of cars and mine appears to have a strange hump in the middle?



You can see my contour cage placed in the area of concern in the pic above.

I transferred the shape onto a piece a paper and scanned it here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9i4R-oybcZkZlpxX0cwRUtvYUE/edit?usp=sharing

If possible, could you print this out, trim along the line and check it on your car. My car is a 64, but any 356 would be helpful at this point.

If the .pdf link doesn't work, perhaps I can email it separately.

Thanks again for your help!
Tom

[Phil Planck]

Tom
I printed your template and will trace it on a piece of cardboard and see how it fits on my 63 T6. Found the planishing thread:

http://allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=10013&highlight=planishing

Just came in from the shop after cleaning up the door latch and installing it. Will make the template tomorrow and report back.

Phil

[JTR70]

Thanks Phil for fielding this one. I was going to use my car but I figured the shapes may vary due to the later grates. Tom, going by your photo those grates to the drivers side look low as if stepped on at one point. I'm sure Phil will have a definitive answer for you soon as to the overall profile.

You're right the corner is most definitely dished. The trough step where the seal corner clamp mounts still looks pulled and needs tapping down. Now the big question remains: is the corner still too high or is the metal behind it too low from the force? Could be a bit of both but mostly the cornered edge still seems too high or sort of rolled up and "peaked". I know you probably don't want to hear this but your hood mocked up with its seal is what will ultimately dictate if its right our not. There is no real lateral or elevation adjustments at the hinges as you well know so you need the hood mounted and then see how the cowl aligns with it. That's one thing I have picked up through all of this you can't repair panel joints or openings separately, it all has to be done simultaneously for any hope of a uniform fit across the gaps. Doors and lids also have to be hinge mounted and latched with a seal. Just setting a hood in place without its hinges will tell you almost nothing as to how the final assembled product will fit. I know you're aware of this; I just wanted to warn anyone else who might be reading.
If this was mine I would be on hood restoration or replacement before I went any further here. Just my 2 cents..

[roy mawbey]

Tom,

After driving his 1951 splitscreen for nine years everywhere, my brothers front hood lock failed ( or wasn't locked!) and his hood came up at around 60mph. That is the most frightening experience and a very costly one to put right. I remember although he had friends in the car trade who helped it was not an easy repair. The cowl under the screen was damaged as well at the hood corners. Justin is correct the hood has to be on to get the contours correct. Without doing so your eyes alone cannot take everything in with open hood housing. That grill does look dished in on the drivers side and again as Justin says has that pushed the middle part up. I remember when I replaced some rusty original metal on the L/side of my cowl I had the hood lid off
To me I think now once you cut, the stresses that are relieved can distort other areas as well.
When I finally replaced the perfect front lid after my repair the gapping was not as it was before the repair. I put that down to the rubber seal being too hard ( the factory hinge holes for aligning were in line by the way ) I eventually tried a trick then which does work but is not I guess factory correct. I clamped all the nuts on the R/ side hinge tight in the position where the gap was good. Then where the hood was too high in the L /side cowl corner I went to the scribed lines I had already made around the hinge and then pulled it down or(torqued it ) past the lines a small amount and tightened the nuts. This actually worked and has not affected the hood opening or closure. Maybe that makes sense to you? I do know after a number of years with the new seal it has flattened considerably in certain areas, Justin I know found a good soft seal to use.

Hope you can get that repair to the hood sorted, again not an easy one I understand.

Roy

[Phil Planck]

Tom
Made a cardboard template and centered it on my cowl 1/2 way between vent and windshield. This is a Ruetter, and I think yours is a Karmann, so could be differences. Anyway, one selling point Foamcar had was a very nice hood fit and gaps, so I assume this area is damage free. Gap at the middle is 2.8mm.

[tperazzo]

Thank you Phil for taking the time to try the template on your car. I really appreciate it! If you ever need anything, please let me know. I'm going through the similar rocker replacement as you on my drivers side now. Would like to compare notes again if that is okay. One question I have is how thick is the hemmed edge of the fender where it meets the door.

Looks like I need to shrink my cowl bump down and fix the depressions on either side. It must have been that hot chick that was climbing all over my car a few years back, ha ha.

I will revisit the cowl to hood issue once I get my hood squared away. If it doesn't fit right, then I will re-massage the cowl area to fit. That is the beauty of metal....you can move it around and it stays where you need it. I will order some rubber to make the final fitment too. Who is the best source for the hood and the door seals?

I will update my project photos soon.

Thank You!
Tom

[Phil Planck]

Tom

I will measure my original 55 with paint and the passenger side on Foamcar. Basically it is going to be 3 metal thicknesses thick, so add up the thickness of the closing panel and double the thickness of the fender. I say this because repro closing panels may not be as thick as original, same for fender repair panels. You can thin this out a little by hammering the hem on dolly, but then you are going to change the gap(smaller). If the closing panel is further away from the hem, then it could be a little thinner right at the edge(2 metal thicknesses min.).

[tperazzo]

Thanks Phil,
I wasn't sure if there was a bit of a bend radius on the hemmed fender area.
Here's an update on my project. The closing panel rusted where it meets the fender, so I had to cut away.




Fortunately the rust didn't extend to the embossed ribs, so I decided to make the patch panel myself over a piece of wood.















Next, I will trim and weld in place.
Take Care,
Tom

[JTR70]

Cool Tom! Your wooden profile buck looks just like the way those old Germans were making metal shapes out of that little sawmill in Gmund.
Nice work! Justin

[Phil Planck]

Tom
I will re-measure that top hinge bracket tomorrow. Took today off to rest the aching muscles.
Phil

[Phil Planck]

Tom

I get 45 mm on drivers upper and 48 mm on passenger upper. Here is how I measured:


Maybe when John gets the hinge panel he can measure what looks to be unmolested original hinges. No guarantee that mine are original location as car has had accident damage. Not hard to measure, so hopefully some of the other T6 guys here can go out and see what there's measure.

Phil

[JTR70]

If I make it back over to my buddies shop soon I'll measure these on his car.

[tperazzo]

Phil thanks again for double checking that measurement. I'm surprised our cars differ by that much. My car is no benchmark and it has had accident damage too. I will measure the other side as you did and report back. Thanks Justin for chiming in and checking another car next time you visit your buddy. Hopefully we can get John a clear measurement.

Couple more pictures to post.

Here's the rusted closing panel cutout.




Partially welded in










Here's the back side showing penetration and also a gap that is a bit wider than I would prefer.





That extra gap was easiest to fill with the MIG welder. (Pigeon Shit, ha ha)





Here's some detail of the bottom curve.




More detail to come soon. Thanks for all your help.
Tom

[JTR70]

Sure Tom, will do!

Sorry your photos did not all load. Sometimes the system is slower than others and you have to give it a solid 30-40 seconds to do its thing. Feels like an eternity just sitting there I know but a clock with a seconds hand helps keep it in perspective. If your inclined please hit Edit and erase the failed attachment addresses and retry loading and reinserting them with your text. Thanks and sorry for the trouble again.
Justin

[John Pierce]

Hey Tom,

I'm late to the party here...your car is coming along nicely! I've read all your posts from the 356Registry forum and am glad I could finish the read here You are doing some fantastic work. I took your advice and am researching TIGs. Gotta see if the wife will let me buy another toy. I'm gonna push the safety aspect...no bad fumes to kill me. Then again she may want me to use the MIG