Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[Manolin]

Galvanneal or Jet Kote is cool on my Bronco...or a future, coupster hot rod... Just not my real $peedster. I think using galvanneal might bring the value of my $400k car down to $25k.
So we have to show a Certificate of Authenticty and a materials build sheet? I like that.

Wish some of those last run floor pans were still around. They are better than these super, crispy, over defined epoxy-cement die specials.

Bruce, are you hoarding any old stock metal?

[ALEX.RDI]

How do you figure the value of your car would drop? If anything, it would go up.

How is a concours judge going to tell if you used galvaneal, or mild steel?

Porsche started to use galvaneal in the 70's because its a better product.

If I'm doing a 100k restoration on a speedster, I would use the rust preventative steel over a mild steel any day.
Using the galvaneal also saves you time. No grinding the paint off a panel before installation.

JMO..


Restoration Design is in the process of making a correct 'A' and 'Pre-A' floor pan...stay tuned

[ALEX.RDI]

Another thing to remember, is that Porsche's pans started out crisp, and as time went by, and the more they stamped, the less crisp the panels became. So...if your pans were not very crisp, chances are they used pans that were later production.

So what does everyone want?? Early production (nice and crisp)
or late production (washed out contours) ??

Here to listen.

Cheers, Alex

[bbspdstr]

Bruce, are you hoarding any old stock metal?

A few pieces, but reserved for reference, not use unless my own car is the last one I do and I need one of those parts.....

I've always wondered what happened to the NOS 356 sheetmetal 'hoarded' in the attic over the showroom at Chuck's old Willoughby dealership. I'd go up with Brad and help ID certain parts...I'd know where it was used, Brad then, off the top of his head, knew the part number. I guessed at least one of each model of 356 could have been made from that 'stash.' (I bought a GT rear lid for an A Coupe for peanuts because it had penciled marks for the construction in raw aluminum and the part number, handwritten, was held on with old cellophane tape. I hung it for a long time as 'art' on my office wall until Bill Perrone wanted to 'trade' for parts I really needed.)

Alex, thanks for getting involved in this arena. It's always best if all sides and interests have a chance to discuss such a topic. With the disclaimer of having dealt with Stoddard's since the early '70s, I'd like to use theirs from Tim Kidder, but it's not as good as yours due to an incorrect detail, the halves-joining lateral round. I also need to get with the growing demands of accuracy for floor type and details so only certain models can have a 'generic' version installed, thus for almost 2 decades I'd buy from Al when he had Simonsen's specific versions in stock, even if their rear pan's rear draw was 11mm too shallow and I had to section the rear seat riser mount the same, as those were made as original.

It's the first appearance that matters most. A knowledgeable inspector can tell if a floor was replaced even with NOS if needed to mention in a serious PPI or appraisal.

BTW, I used to clean and lightly blast to etch lower reapir panels and then used a weld-through primer when welding together in an overlap where done originally and then slather Rustoleum's Damp Proof Red primer over everything, on a rotisserie when possible. When I see those 'primitive' jobs for a redo 35 years later....'look Ma, no rust!' (Of course, whatever covering that primer had to be compatible Rustoleum products or it just didn't stick.)

I like Galvaneal...as long as overcoats stick to that!

-Bruce

[JTR70]

Bruce, Thank you for taking the time to shoot and post those photos, just what I needed to see. The description about the dies wearing out makes perfect sense and is something I had not considered before. Steve Hogue was telling me that Jim Barrington approached him on Softening the corners/edges on set of floor pans for Speedster he's doing. They were too crisp and sharp for his liking. So it seems he's after the "worn Die" look.. The old Story about all that sheet metal in Stoddard's rafters is the stuff of legend now...I wonder too what still might be lurking up there. Thanks again!

9/12/14
Left striker post conversion
Spent most of today's session on the learning curve. The right side will of course go quicker and cleaner but I had to start somewhere.

Time was needed to figure when and where to cut and bend.

Initial cutting and contouring where very promising in relation to the doors profile.

as the repeated test fits went there was a bit of slippage discrepancy and it finally occurred to me to drill and mount the striker plate and plug it into the door's latch for an accurate fit. Again this was part of the learning curve today.

Aside form the getting the outer door profile to match it was equally important to make sure the seal channel profile was running consistent along the backside as well.

Getting better but more shaping was still ahead.

Just about there and almost ready to reinstall the flange section I cut away earlier.

Shaped and welded.

Fine finishing yet to do and I'm guessing it may need more contouring once I begin fitting the quarter panel but will cross that bridge when I get to it.

It now runs to the inside of the door's edge allowing for height adjustment for the eventual body skin.

Moving onto the right side post tomorrow. Thanks for looking! Justin

[JOP]

Justin, that was good of you to use the door as a "die" for getting your lockposts right.
But the again you dont have any original lines to use as a guide when doing your "new" porsche
I really enjoy reading the various stories being told on ya site....being tech info or racing history
/ Per

[roy mawbey]

Difficult job Justin. I would think you feel much safer with that alignment frame securely in place like you show. Those who go this far into things could well come a cropper without one. Nice photo's. Aside from this, in the mid 70's my brother was still driving his 51 with RHD conversion. The dash panel was LHD. He went to AFN the main Porsche agent where he used to work and would you believe bought the last dashboard a pre-A version RHD ! A few ago we tried to evaluate how Porsche produced a RHD version dashboard considering the low volume and tooling costs. I used to be involved in press toolmaking so asked some questions. Apparently they cut and welded somehow the LHD version some guys even found the weld runs. He bought that item for peanuts and further more they were clearing their stock of panels at the same time to make space!!

He sold a lot of items a year or so ago on e-bay and was surprised the money he got for them. I wasn't!!

Roy

[Phil Planck]

Way to go Justin. Nice job altering that coupe part. Thanks for posting the progression. You would think with the value of Speedsters where they are that someone would make that part and sell if for twice the price of a coupe one, or more, since speedsters command twice the price or more.

Phil

[JOP]

Justin, a 1957/58 with some minor work at the top....but your looks really good already.
/Per

[ukinusa]

Hi Justin, I would like to PM with you regarding the tunnel work you have done; I have some specific questions I would like to ask. I am currently not able to work on my other car (61 coupe) as I have had a
bad dose of vertigo and "upchuck" - and bending over and peering up -
around - sideways etc is a constant activity. Which I can't do.

So I am cheering myself up by looking at my next project. a 57 A coupe. Its missing the tunnel and has a cut out /butchered rear cable /tunnel exit area. This is my "elephant in the room" so to speak. When I do start - next year I hope, it will perhaps post to abcgt forum - I find the Registry a bit intimidating ! ...but a great resource.

Not sure how to contact you - if you are willing to chat - my cell is 435 632 8223

[JTR70]

Thank you Per and also thank you for posting that shot of your lock post. Its very helpful to see it with the lead stripped off. As Bruce was telling me a few days ago: no two cars were exactly alike here. The edges and these details were all leaded and took on whatever best sculpted line developed as they worked the area.

Thanks Phil! Well, Alex from RD checks in from time to time and they may well indeed offer a Speedster versioned post in the near future. Like you said they could command a premium for them...

Thanks again Roy! The sub-frame definitely did its job and I could probably remove it at this point but its not in the way and I figure it's not hurting anything. It will need to come out before I commit to the final door gaps so the chassis can settle in under its own tensile strength.(and removed off the ends of the hoist) I'm sure your brother did quite well if he was offering pre-A parts in todays market!

Hello Steve, Thank you for joining us and Welcome!!! Sounds like you're having a rough go of it at the moment. Good health is something easily taken for granted until problems arise. Hope you're on the road to recovery at this point. Just sent you an email and will be happy to assist anyway that I can on your '57. Welcome once again! Justin

9/15/14
Ordering the Speedster windshield post mounts tomorrow.

Finished the basic dimension plans for the shank mounts and will drop it by my friend Bill's (machinist) to get these rolling.



Not exactly like the original but I want a 3mm shouldered at the base for the bolt to work up against.

I'll leave Bill with both parts to ensure it all fits nicely. Especially the top angle cut and the inner dimension for the shank; don't want too snug or too loose. He'll know what I need.
Thanks for looking! Justin

[Jack Staggs]

Look very closely at the new mount posts and compare to known originals. Last year I had a pair that the post came out of the housing at the wrong angle.

[Drew.s]

Hi Justin

Where are you going to get your new posts from?

Regards
Drew

[JTR70]

Thanks for the reminder Jack! I have heard about the legendary Stoddard repro WS post's from the 1990's which were built with the wrong post angle and would lay the windshield frame back too far.

That's a good question Drew. I haven't thought that far ahead to be honest. Since there is very little to no chance of running across an original frame these days I suppose we'll more than likely be buying the same repro frame that you're thinking about getting. Its not like it was 10 years ago when original frames and or parts of it would be offered up for sale on Ebay or the classifieds on a somewhat regular occasion. Man, there was a time a few years back when I had two complete original speedster windshield frames and one upper frame with its posts. Now I'm down to just the one for my project; which is also the frame I'll be building this car to accept. Projects like ours and the rebirth of a lot of long dead Speedster's has all but dried up the Original parts availability now. If a nice complete original frame were to come up for sale today I could see it commanding a price in the 10-15K range...

9/16/14
Right lock post prep

"latched" post ready to be marked for initial trimming.

Initial cut and profile bending.

Shortly after making that last cut a buddy of mine sent me these photos of a raw NOS speedster lock post. The top outer profile where the skin will attach is much broader than mine at the top.

With this new perspective I realized that I had jumped the gun on a committed final shape to the drivers side. It's best for me to stop where I am at now with these and wait until I am actually fitting the quarter panel skins on then I can build that corner radius to suit. That's what I learned today... Justin

[JTR70]

9/18/14

Waiting for a shipment of parts so I've been stuck grinding weld heads and other small unpleasantries until they show up. Hopefully tomorrow. I did want to see how the mounted doors were shaping up against an eventual front cowl and dash so I mocked up the original dash I have for my project.

More trimming of the A-pillars is required but it seated in about 90%.

Liked the line it was taking with the doors so that was at least promising.





Dash could stand to come down about a quarter inch more but this fine trimming will be left to fit Steve Hogue's dash and cowl.

It will be interesting to see how the new one will fit but its comforting to have this original piece here for comparison. Thanks for looking! Justin