Coupe into Speedster Conversion

[Jack Staggs]

Up top it opens a touch wider and may require up to 5MM of lead to create that gap but after the chassis settles in it will probably close up a bit and require far less so that I think is a blessing.


Justin

Dont worry too much about the very top of the door where it fits to the qtr panel/jamb at the interior side. The gaps there are often not parallel, with gaps increasing to 9mm or more.

[bbspdstr]

Gaps:
If I've posted this before, forgive me. I just returned from a week away in FL and am 'catching up.'
The old saying; "Fool me once, shame on the gaps...fool me twice, shame on me."
Sadly, my own story:

(Coupe restorers can ignore this step.....maybe. Ya feelin' lucky? Ya got the 'bridge' from front to rear...but is that enough?)

Open 356s...what can we say? They all get an extra step BEFORE the door gaps are finished. No matter how well the work is done, the restored chassis seems to sag more than I'd imagine the original product did. It's a unibody construction, only as strong as it's weakest link.

Suspension back on, rebuilt, front arms tied together or the spindle installed if ready. Rear torsion bars and grommets back in to stay, the trailing spring plates at least temporarily, connected by a tube clamped where the axle tubes would be.

Load on the inner rear tray with 2x's and or plywood at least 225 lb. (for a pushrod engine). (add about another 100 for a Carrera engine and paraphernalia) Lots of canter-levering going on back there behind the trans.

About 125 lb over where the trans will live, 50 lb bags of sand on each side of the new floor to duplicate the weight of seats and mats and carpeting and top. Fifty across the front of the tunnel for the glass and frame and gauges and trim and wiring, pedal cluster, etc.
Then, about 50 lbs or more for a partial gas tank, about 35 for a spare (or use the spare!) and about 25 more for the battery.

Be aware the suspension travels in an arc. I built a special chassis dolly just for this, with plates to slide on for the front and U-shaped supports for the tube in the rear. Jackstands can be used, but remember the movement! Other simple designs can work, just be safe!

The object is to approximate the weight of EVERYTHING that will be put back on the shell when on it's wheels. Bounced and wiggled on the suspension, loaded, only then will a gap be as it will be when the car is finished.

One does not want to find about the laws of gravity and physics AFTER the car is painted and assembled and down on it's wheels. ("trust me" )

It's worth the few hours this step will take. Weigh the 'heavy stuff' lying around.... on a bathroom scale. I include old lead dive weights, a small anvil, scrapped 5" naval shells, trolley jacks, old flywheels, bricks and cinder blocks and bags of sand from when I used to do my own blasting (all on cardboard, of course). Be careful in all aspects, but this step is really worth the added effort for any open car in the door gap process.

Like I said, ignore this caveat of mine if mentioned (by anyone) before but assume the answer to the question of how I know this.

(I'll try to edit-in pictures when I return to the shop.)
-Bruce

[JTR70]

Thanks John, it has been a huge stress relief to begin seeing these panels starting to line up to form a coherent shape and an actual "car body" as Mark said.
I appreciate you saying so Neil! At this point I honestly don't know what color this car is going to be as he has not made his mind up yet. I do know that once I have the steel work completed it will be leaving me as the Doc has already commissioned a high end paint shop through a friend of his to perform the final bodywork and paint. All of which is just fine by me.

Jack, thanks for the confirmation on that factory variance it does make my life a little easier.

Bruce I can't thank both you and Jack enough for sharing your years of hard earned expertise with all of us. I certainly will pass along this "frame loading" technique when the final gaps are ready to be formed. It certainly holds true just like every other aspect of building something from nothing that it all has to be fitted and tested in its "natural state" before you even think about painting or chroming whatever "it" is. A very heartbreaking lesson to learn otherwise.
Thank you very much again you guys!
Justin
3/7/16
Fitting upper left fender.

With the lower corner of the fender secured I could now begin fitting the fender against the lid with more confidence. While setting the gap it was also now time to take the plunge and trim the excess off at the cowl joint.

At first I wasn't sure weather I'd trim away the cowl or trim on the fender side. I settled on trimming the fender as leaving the length on the cowl allows me access to hammer and work the metal from underneath both during and after welding.

Cut line scribed in and trimming back carefully.

I was more than a little nervous during this commitment phase so I stopped half through and mounted the fender again just to be I still had a tight end to end fit.

Once the ends were pushed down even the joint tightened right up.

With that fear put to rest I finished cutting and stopped just ahead of the rolled edge to keep my options open for now.

With this fender gapped to both the lid and the door the top opening turns just a touch too quick and is out of alignment with the cowl's edge. A relief cut would be needed to allow it to swing out into better position; That next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[bbspdstr]

On suspension, on rotisserie with bracing and engine weight in rear. All steps as the shell is rebuilt.

[ukinusa]

Gotta ask - are those dummy (I hope) munitions?

[bbspdstr]

Of course! Those 'heavy metal' pieces are all weighed and stacked to duplicate a pushrod engine of about 225 lbs. There are paint-pen numbers on about everything of bulk in my shop.....but sand bags are still my preferred weights....until a puncture makes a leak.

Those artillery shells were rejected in manufacture and found in a scrap yard near my childhood neighborhood.

Heavy but hollow, we pretended they were mortars from which to launch bottle rockets when we kids played "Army" in the late '50s. Since then, they have served as half of a form to make the round forward floor impressions with a cap from an acetylene tank as the other half, stuck with a BFH. Many other uses as the decades have flashed by. One can't have too many odd shaped pieces of substantive metal in a fabrication shop, right?

-Bruce

[ukinusa]

I recall a story recently of one of those huge 'bunker buster' bombs that was outside a gate as a "monument" somewhere,some military place as I recall. Anyway no one gave it a second thought until for some reason, they going to move it and then the penny dropped.....

But to get back on track - yes heavy metal of odd shapes are really useful. I am about to re start my work on A heater pipe rust hell hole.. Justin suggested use of a wheel rim as a way to approach getting the pipe flange. Will see what I can cobble up

[bbspdstr]

Meandering off topic again but related to to 356s by way of a 205mm bolt pattern wheel and a warning. I just checked on my phone and didn't take a picture, but taking off a pair of front brake drums from an early spindle on the 356 didn't work in any traditional way, either side, so I had to 'improvise' recently.

Decided to remove the assembly from the link pins, found an old VW wheel and three small jack stands, bolted the wheel on the drum and supported it underneath of the the wheel, added the jamb nuts at the end of the spindle and smacked it down with a piece of hardwood with a BFH a few times and the tight inner race of the bearing finally came loose on both.

Be aware that new ('close but no cigar')inner front bearings spindle race ID may be too tight and shouldn't be forced on once the hub race is pressed into the hub, the ball or roller bearing and other race, grease and seal are installed. The only thing to do is take emory paper strips and "shoeshine" the spindle all around (where the bearing needs to live) to remove a thousandth or more until they are less of a hard press fit and just 'tight enough.' The last 'bubbas' just pounded them on and made it a need for 'getting medieval' to take it apart. The experience with all of the new (roller) bearings from the usual vendors for A-B-C types is similar.

Good luck with the warm air duct tubing...happy cobbling!

Bruce

[Jack Staggs]

Good council Bruce. I think the difference in the inner bearing race has to do with the ball bearing type vs the tapered roller bearing. The taper bearing is tighter. I have an old school Proto drum puller (imagine that..) that fits 205 drums. 99% of the time cars with undressed spindles and roller bearings, the race does not come off with the drum, but remains on the spindle. You were lucky! I then have to pull off the seal race behind the race with a press plate like this
http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/adjustable-bearing-plate-for-press.251929/
to get it apart using another ancient puller like this to get the whole @%$&^*& stack off before i can play shoeshine boy at Union Station:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311342297534
Takes about 1.5 hours per side. There exist a factory puller, but I have never seen one. Bet John Bunin has one. Anyways folks, fit your inner bearing first! They should slide on and off by hand. Don't get greedy though!

[JTR70]

Bruce, thanks for sharing this extremely valuable tip which would only be known through many years of hard knocks. That is quite the contraption and makes perfect sense to have the frame loaded on its suspension points. I'm now a believer in the process of making a similar set up. It reminds me of an old repair experience my mentor told me about years ago. He was doing a rear quarter panel replacement on a car with the damaged side up on a jack stand. He said it lined up and looked bitchin until the stand was removed and lowered back down onto its wheel. Thanks again! Justin

3/15/16
Tedious contour changes to the upper opening of left quarter panel.

Initial cut line to all allow that bend opening to relax.

Before it was done I must have removed a good 5mm of excess

After the initial cut it swung nearly into alignment but with good flush contact with the mating flanges.


Top frame was installed to check and of course the next issue cropped up. The profile at the top was too crowned and encroaching into the base bow. Its not critical for this to be perfect but I at least need a little clearance in there for the eventual canvas top material.

Secondary relief cut was added to try and chase that one out.

Top installed again to confirm how far it needed to go.

Lots a gentile persuading required.

After some doing this edge was finally getting into the shape and position I needed.

rewelded and dressed, what a PIA this detour was.

Mount flanges synch up nice with good alignment with the edge of the cowl.

Not a perfect contour match with this tops base bow but it just had to be close. Besides this top frame is not staying with this car and its final top frame will most certainly vary a bit anyway.
Thanks for stopping by!
Justin

[JTR70]

3/20/16
Tying up all the loose ends around the mounting edges of the quarter panel in preparation for its final installment.

Refitting lateral mounting flange. Another one of those jobs you don't look forward to but one that could no longer be ignored to move forward.

Its reattachment point would depend on where the two flange surfaces met.

And all the above was dependent on a smooth transition with the edge of a fully latched deck lid. Best adjusted position above.

Gap and corner alignment off the cowl was about as close as it was going to get.

After that was all established I began stitching the flange back on. That last little missing section proved a little tricky as the step in the flange tapered shallow as it moved forward. All the while its gently curving too.

This first attempt was a fail...


After that I figured my best bet was to attach a basic form section at the top first then heat it and hammer form it into the needed shape.

That turned the trick.

After all that fuss it was very relieving to get that lip buttoned up.

Doesn't look like much but there is a ton of time invested getting that flange in the sweet spot so the body panel skins can mount off from them and be level with the closed lid. All in the name of reducing the amount of lead needed in the end.

Forward loose end details coming up next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

3/21/16
Final forward prep details before installment of quarter panel.

flanged and attached the upper corner of the striker to the closing channel. That too was now welded into its final position.

Wired edge was trimmed to final length on the rocker with a wire lead exposed and ground to a point like a pencil to allow for more weld contact.

fender side was trimmed next.

Wired edge prepped and ready. I staggered the joint with the rest of the panel for added strength. Once the two ends are joined a metal wrap will be welded over the joint to finish the panel as well as reinforce the conjoined wire. This the way I did the fender on my coupe a few years back.

All the loose end prep was finally complete and the fender was mounted back on for the final time. Once it was fully synched down into place I mocked up the top frame once again just to be sure. Tacking welding was soon to follow.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[JTR70]

3/21/16 (Part2)

Welding finally begins.
Tacked the leading edge in the door jamb in a few spots then moved down the rocker joint.

Double checking one more time for the smoothest leading edge transition between these two sections.

Clamped in their best aligned position this way as well and now ready to join those leads together.

glued. Leading edge contour looks promising but won't know for sure until I get the new sheath around the wire.

Couldn't be happier with the profile shape though.

Shaping the weld down in prep for the new section.

The new section is actually just the excess from this rocker which was carefully harvested.

Backed this length joint and clamped it even with that same piece of heavy metal and began tacking the skin.

Won't require a ton of filler to be perfect.

Added in the filler sliver to that relief cut which allowed the rockers leading edge to swing out into alignment with the fender.


Sheath trimmed to fit and ready to weld. Puts me in mind and really no different than piece of shrink tubing over a solder joint on electrical wires. Anyway this will bridge and better support that wire graft.

Section welded and dressed smooth

Edge profile hanging in there.

Could use a more hand filing to get that last bit but it was good enough for tonight; welding continues tomorrow.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin,

Terrific, just terrific that welding job. You made me smile as before you started when nothing lined up, I could not imagine it ending up looking so good.

Well done indeed!! Although I doubt I will ever do it again, these tips on how to get round and modify panels will not be forgotten by me!

Roy

[JTR70]

Roy, I can't thank you enough for all the great words of encouragement through this journey. I really appreciate, that you "appreciate" all that has gone into this thing so far. Thanks once again Sir!
Justin

3/23/16

Final shipment of Trevor's Hammer works panels arrived safely today completing our order from him for this project. Trevor once again did not disappoint!

Front end group along with a couple of other needed items boxed safe and sound.

Project's new "face"

Nothing more beautiful than fresh panels especially when you really need them to complete your project.

Very impressed with the accuracy of the contours in and around the headlight opening.

Small misc. items included the trunk's forward upper closing wall..

And the lower engine compartment perimeter flanges for the 4-cam motor. This an early T1 detail I wanted to replicate.


Mock up time... I had to try these on! Plenty of excess metal on the bottom runs.

What a difference just adding these on made. Also trying out that upper wall section.

Still along way from home for sure but its so nice to see such large missing pieces of the picture there after all this time.


With the stand in the way this was as close as I could get with the nose this time around so you'll have to use a bit of imagination.

Like the deck lid before, the trunk lid will have to be adjusted, latched and set first then these panels will transition off from there. Gaps, panel elevation issues with the closed lid, contour off the front of the door...Etc... Etc... Etc. Makes my head swim! Little bites at a time if you want to stay sane...

A very crude mock up but she's coming...


After all the time I spent wrestling with the front end on my coupe I learned the curves and contours pretty well as a byproduct and this nose feels and looks right to me so far. I love it!

Damn! I'm gonna be short here and will have to add in a filler section, hate to do that but no choice. Inherent problem going from a Hogue front cowl to a Hammer works fender I guess.

Its a speedster! Well, a little closer still anyway. Like all the other mock ups before, it was fun and exciting while it lasted but its now back to work on the tail section.
Thanks for stopping by!
Justin