1959 356A S/R coupe project chassis # 108625

[JTR70]

Upper flange and profile shaping carried over to the right side. The corner needs a bit more curling over. Again several attempts at dialing in this lap joint.
Lap joint now finally dialed in by this point. The trough edge is stuck under the lip of the hood.
The leading edges of these two closing panels needed thinning to allow the trough's shoulder to clear so it could swing out wider from under the hood in the mounted position on these upper flanges. Just a constant chipping away at improving the fitment.
ready to accept the right side of the trough.
Entire trough screw mounted to the flange with a decent gap and height relation to the edge of the latched hood. No where near perfect but well within striking distance.

Thanks for looking!

Justin

[JTR70]

Forward closing wall shaping and mount locating
Several stabs at establishing the correct forward upper wall flange height as those drilled holes by the lateral wall lap joint highlight. A lot of adjustment options at these lap joints
Reshaping began along the left side with several rounds of heat and hammering along the upper edge.
Mounted trough now slowly seating into the needed position with close uniform gap with the edge of the hood. My initial center screw hole mounts have slid way down out of range after more metal was needed to make the needed shape. They were just a jumping off point and a needed step among many in this fitment process.
Left side of the trough is all but set. After the relief cuts there was just a wisp of metal holding these two halves making life much simpler to fit individually.
Quick nose mock up. Slowly getting what I'm after...

[JTR70]

Trough recontouring: First cut to relax the curve open were it began to close down on the edge of the hood.
More cuts added as it went to achieve a uniform gap/shape with the edge of the hood.
Shape relaxing working from the center outward. Steadily getting a uniform gap along the edge. As it makes the turn upward a relief cut or two will be needed for tightening.
As the troughs shaping to the hoods edge got closer I now needed to get the mating surface for it at the top of this closing panel finalized in shape and height.

Final shaping of the upper flange next. Also lots of adjustment variation within the three closing wall relationship which had to be finalized simultaneously.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

[JTR70]

Filler strip:
Nose now in its best adjusted position. The edges of it around the hood are wavy and manhandled but that will all be reset when the trough goes back in.
Moving onto paper templates for the backfill strip.
About this much short.
New strip just tacked in for now.
Once the trough was added back in it was clear that its arch would need to be reshaped to the edge of the hood before it could go any further.
That next...

Thanks for looking.

Justin

[JTR70]

re-establishing the nose position after trough removal.
Nose recentered with the hood and with the battery box within a few MM's. Dialing the best average placement with these two.
With this newly established placement the last bit of the left shoulder closes up and is actually ending up under the lip of the hood. If I hadn't separated the trough it would have never allowed the needed movement to true center.
Re-establishing the overall angle of the nose at the headlight openings.
Contour line carried off the end of the hood was improving as well. A filler strip of steel will have to be added when the trough goes back in.
That pesky right corner at the hood still wants to lay lower but its a much more cooperative with the rigidity of the trough out of the way.

[JTR70]

Hapy new Year Roy! Yes, this process was making my old brain hurt as well which is why it was tough to get motivated to rehash all of this online until recently. Absolutely, dedicated jigs and fixtures makes life a whole lot simpler. Thanks again! Justin

[roy mawbey]

Justin I can understand now why you are completing this most difficult assembly of parts instruction in installments !! This is enlightning as you are correct in saying the factory had apart from the Cellette bench but also fixtures and jigs produced for all the reasons above. I remember some of my toolmaking life apart from press and die work being involved with jig and fixture work !!

There is never enough time spent in explaining the need of these items in so many restoration manuals. So much harder without them and your explanations hightlight this and should be noted by those not really aware of what can happen trying to do this type of work.

Well done in establishing things so leading would be a minimum !!

This element of the work is taxing my old brain just hope it all works out Justin . Its very interesting to watch all this going on !

Roy

[JTR70]

A couple more fitment and location issues:
As I was getting the upper portion of the nose set around the hood a new problem cropped up. The lower skirt height was too high. As I was planning ahead to the eventual cutouts for the bumper irons The bottom of the eventual needed hole would have ended up right at the 90 degree turn. Way too deep and leaving only a razor thin strip of metal at the edge. After referencing an original, the above photo highlighted by the paint stick shows where this hole should be cut at its lowest. Nose was unscrewed from where I had it to allow this movement downward.
Cross measured from the bottom of the grill opening to the top of the bumper bracket against my original once again for further confirmation that this was correct. It was, the nose was mounted a touch too high.
A slight exaggeration here but that initial gap I had been chasing was obliterated. The edge and trough were just installed a touch too low for my purposes. I'm not going to compensate with lead so more cutting and correction was in store.
If that wasn't enough the trough also pushes the nose over to the right with the hood sitting in it. Measurements from the battery box to the grill openings confirmed that the nose was sitting slighty to the right of the frame and not perfectly centered with it.

Once all this was weighed the decision to cut the trough out entirely and begin again in a sense was a no brainer. Center of the hood highlighted in tape and in process here of centering the nose with it. More to come..

Thanks for looking!

Justin

[JTR70]

More adjustments:

Cut the left corner free from the trough to allow the needed movement without distortion to the right side fitment.
Continuation off of the edge of the hood improved immediately and without force.
Also making sure the angle of the nose matches my Original reference as closely as possible. Not too angled back or too vertical. This is where dedicated locating and holding jigs like the factory used would make life much simpler.
Not only the angle of the nose but bucket opening in relation to one another. Bruce Baker educated me last time that level across the openings is what you're shooting for but a little "wall-eyed" angle is okay but never cross eyed. This initial check shows it slightly walled eyed with inner edges of the openings in contact with about an 8th inch gap at the outer edges. Another detail you have to as it goes.

[JTR70]

Hi Roy, Yes, a lot going on at once. Interesting, I thought for sure just a super late transitional change.

[roy mawbey]

Justin, this is so interesting your attempts to get this right. Its a complex problem indeed. When I bought my car in the 60's those original factory front indicator lights were already showing a few marks under the chrome and a friends 56 car were different. I checked it out years ago and yes, its a 356A T2 change they made in 58/59. The 356B version is different to the T2 version. Mine have the correct K numbers embossed on them and now they are rare items if you need them.

Roy

[JTR70]

Right side brace and further nose setting.
Repeat right side. All just initial placement but I needed some lateral anchoring at this point to continue on dialing in the new noses final position.
Left side was laying in there nicely against the hood but that was pretty much the case from the start.
By contrast the right profile against the hood continued to drop out. I'd have to really crank on it to get it to come out but that in turn distorted the way the rest of the nose was fitting.
Using my original undamaged reference car the distance from the bump stop to the outer edge of the horn grill was 21 and an 8th inches. Not an absolute, just a measurement to shoot for. Very close to that here.
Right side by contrast was easily a half inch back. This explained part of the issues out at the edge of the hood on this side. Again it would not just come out without a fight. It began to dawn on me that the trigger point was in the trough and I'd be relief cutting eventually. This was not the only issue... that up next.

Thanks for looking.

Justin

[JTR70]

Yours is a later one but I thought it would have been in the late 107-108 chassis number ranged based on those 356B style front signal lenses. Maybe its one of the first group to receive that change? 20K really? That was the going rate for just for floors and longitudinals in the early'90's and guys were still whining about giving the job away. This collectors first 356 experience(and last) I'm sure..

[roy mawbey]

Justin my chassis is 106954. There is so much involved in every part of this body restoration! I watched on TV a program of a new company starting classic car restoration. A well known buyer of classic cars bought a 356A standard convertable almost a barn find with so much needed on the outside let alone underneath. He aaked the company for a quote to fully restore it. He paid £150,000
for this car and seemed to think after restoration he would make money!! They took a week or so to provide a quote of £150,000 . I reckon was expecting £20,000 . All he said was well I won't make any money at £300,000 . So of course he declined. A fool and his money are soon parted. Never buy an old 356 without a full PPI.

Roy

[JTR70]

Now onto folding the end over as done originally. This was just some place to start. The folding would go up further as the fitment progressed.
Back to trial fitments with the bolt centered in the tab slot. The fold at the tip was eventually increased as needed to get the needed length. I also began pounding those turned leading edges flat like they ought to be. I'll have to come up with backing dolly that can reach deeper into the corner to take out the rest of it.
Shooting for as square as possible while positioning it just past the second bumper mount hole as originally. Checking it with a conduit mock up as it went. Again the mounting options open up with the conduit and horn bracket gone for the moment.
Close enough for a tack weld and the tab set screwed into the nose. All just preliminary as slight changes were sure to come.
With conduit reintroduced you can see already how much adjustment change there is from where it was weld at the neck. The headlight bucket isn't even there yet and it too will be changing where the end of that conduit needs to be. You could of course fit it as a unit and compromise where needed to get it to work but why; its so much easier and cleaner to build to suit in stages. Just because its sold this way doesn't mean you shouldn't question it, cut it apart and make it work for you instead of the other way around.

Thanks for looking.

Justin