Radio Free Registry

[admin]

Mic-
I emailed you a copy of the 2012 East Coast Holiday #s, so you can see where all the money goes. Hope this helps.

[DG58INNM]

What to do, what to do? My dilemma is whether to renew my registry membership. I expire at the end of May. The dues increase bothers me a bit. Not for the money. As Bruce and others have noted, its probably been too cheap too long anyway, and I'm pretty sure an extra 10 bucks isn't going to break me. What set me off was the explanation accompanying the announcement of the dues increase that it was in part the result of the lawsuit. I find that hard to accept given Bill's mention of insurance earlier in this thread.

So what would I get for my money if I re-up? Its nice to get the magazine I guess. There's some fascinating little gems in there (like Joris' history of the Hirth cranks) But the last few issues have been heavily devoted to the value of things. This sort of turns me off. Everything seems about how good a buy some guy makes because he only paid 800 bucks for some little scrap of chrome and glass. Or we get to read about a guy looking at some others guys car bought by another guy at yet another guys auction, passing judgement on the whole deal as "well bought" (or "well sold"). Am I the only fellow who finds that a little weird? Even some of the restoration stories (especially about long dead race cars) rub me a little the wrong way because they seem to focus on the cost-is-no-object approach. For comparison, one of my favorites in recent years was Tom Megan's little home-spun oil burner project.

If I don't re-up, I can't post to 356 Talk. But I haven't done so anyway in many months. I can still read it if I want, though I don't keep up with it much now. Might be nice to use the classifieds now and then I guess. Although I've had really good luck selling on the Samba, and I'm not needing to buy anything.

What am I missing? Pros and cons. I'm serious! Sitting around this evening thinking about it. I'm not anti-Registry by any means. But I just don't know, it feels different now. Somebody make a compelling argument for me one way or the other?

Thanks,
DG

[S.J.Szabo]

Mr.DG:

I empathize with your (essentially) ethical dilemma. While I am a voluntary ex-patriot, it was a reaction to my singular circumstances alone and unfit for the consideration of others.

And while this is a very personal decision, I laud your courage to make it a discussion issue.

So, since you asked, I would counsel you to re-up. You have awakened from a dream, where your fellow 356ers were all on the up and up and the sole agenda was appreciation for the marque. Rubbing the sleep out of your eyes, you are now disillusioned with the sordid reality and are beginning to ask questions. This makes you more valuable to the best interests of the Club if you are on the inside, working as an agent of change and shaking the still-somnambulant friends/fellow members around you.

Our greatest hope for change lies in overcoming the apathy of so much of the Membership.

Shake 'em up.

[S.J.Szabo]

Mr.Captain Unobtanium (Da ta ta da-a-a-a-a):

I am wondering if you would be kind enough to post a revenue and expense report for the 2012 Holiday so that others could begin to understand a process they never get to experience. I know I would.

Such information would also be an excellent basis of discussion of ways the Club could do more to support the one activity that conforms to the expectations of IRS/Ohio regs.

Pretty please?

[bbspdstr]

Let's give Adam time to remove the splinters from the fence he necessarily straddles and acknowledge in a friendly way that where those splinters are concerns a necessary ingredient in his whole of life...and instead, let's ask where the financials are for this year's ECH.

Long ago, it was the west coast that was whistled for a discontinuation, now it's where the club began, the east coast. May mean nothing, but it may show that where the "hotbed" of 356-dom is and always was may be taking over just because more of the cars allows for more who appreciate them actually caring about a club for them. Again, growing apathy and a residual fallout from the aging of all the ingredients of a 'club.'

There are not enough IN the club caring ABOUT the club, let alone a lawsuit thereto. The question of 'why' a lawsuit is therefore moot to the majority of those members/subscribers who pay dues/for a subscription.

There are those who support the status quo of the Registry and that number is likely a balance to we who are, to use Gordon's word for my postings on the Samba, "skreeing" about what is an improper way to run a car club. The thick soft center between the thin crunchy cookies of that Oreo is made up of those who could care less...don't really want to know more than "it's a slick magazine," and most of those are getting OLD. I'll call that 356-numb....(or dumb).


My take is that those who support the trustees would do so even if the board changed direction and did things "our way." In other words, it's either something in it for them either way or they are sheep with blinders no matter what the board wants to do.

I believe no one sues, posts, discusses, engages, debates or otherwise involves themselves in any of this that does not care about the club aspect of the Registry, or the easy, soft-centered way would be to just walk away or at least shut up and hope their still-trusted ones who begat this mess prevail.

Does anyone feel those pro-trustees are fighting for 'just a magazine'?

Yes, the 'club' needs more David Genslers. More pragmatism, more applied logic, more willingness to engage. I always have asked "WHY?" Why would anyone NOT think the club needs new blood in leadership. Why wouldn't anyone want to at least TRY new ways of attracting new members? Why would anyone argue "trust, but verify" as a way to view governance of a car club? Why are "we" the only persons talking about this and why aren't we doing that talking on the Registry site? (and THAT is the 'loaded question.')

A 'why' question automatically implies an answer is expected, so, like Mr. Szabo says..."bring a friend."

[Dan997tt]

For the group, please explain why legal action is in process. (Not WHAT the action is, but WHY)

Why did Steve H take this action, reportedly on his own, against the Registry?
Specifically, exactly what motivated him to do so?

SH is no longer a member? What happened to his membership?

Is there some sort of commercial element to all this? What benefit does SH specifically stand to gain from the legal action?

It is hard to believe that SH is working to protect and preserve a club he holds no membership in.

Some simple, concise explanation would be very much welcomed, specifically from SH in his own words.

[MMW]

Yes I did receive a copy from Adam of the "2012 ECH ledger". It is very straight forward. I do not feel it is my place to post it here. But I will say it appears to be on the up & up which is what I expected. In my opinion there was a lot of money spent on making it a "upper class event".

I guess my original question should of been why do the holidays have to cost so much. Why all the extras. Nothing wrong with what they are doing or how they are run, just not my cup of tea. To answer my own question here.--The crowd that supports them enjoys this type of event.-- In my opinion the holidays as currently run are more about meeting with like minded people who enjoy doing expensive things instead of just hanging out at a beer & bbq & shooting the bull about all things cars.

If that is what they want & enjoy then it is fine by me. Just a different take on what a car event should be. Reminds me of when I go with my wife to a corporate event, I'm out of my element.

If they want to attract a younger crowd then more "down home type events" should be held. When I was at Hershey this year I stayed at the Knights inn with the guys from the 914world forum. Far cry from the fancy places but on Friday night we hung out in the parking lot till about 11:00. I would assume most of the registry members were at the museum for the suit & tie event. Again just a different way to enjoy the cars for different people.

It's hard to type my opinions without someone taking them the wrong way.

[MMW]

[quote="Dan997tt" post=7541]For the group, please explain why legal action is in process. (Not WHAT the action is, but WHY)

Why did Steve H take this action, reportedly on his own, against the Registry?
Specifically, exactly what motivated him to do so?

SH is no longer a member? What happened to his membership?

Is there some sort of commercial element to all this? What benefit does SH specifically stand to gain from the legal action?

It is hard to believe that SH is working to protect and preserve a club he holds no membership in.

Some simple, concise explanation would be very much welcomed, specifically from SH in his own words.

There were questions raised about the financials of the registry by some. Whenever something was posted on the forum it was deleted/censored which gave the appearance of what are they hiding. Steve was one who did not let it rest & has since had his membership terminated. The registry reportedly has been losing tens of thousands of dollars each fiscal year for 3-4 years with no other explanation than, we planned to spend down our reserves. It then became a pissing match for & against with several others banned/terminated/quitting. As it stands now it is in the courts & the lawyers are winning. Steve still has not been able to examine the books. It all comes down to transparency of the books I think.

That's it in a nutshell as I see it. There is a locked thread on the Samba 356 forum that you can read. You won't find anything on the registry forum because it all just vanished.

If I have anything wrong here please correct me.

[356JAGER]

DELETED

[Bill Sampson]

[quote="Dan997tt" post=7541]For the group, please explain why legal action is in process. (Not WHAT the action is, but WHY)

Why did Steve H take this action, reportedly on his own, against the Registry?

EVERY LAWYER I KNOW, INCLUDING PRESUMABLY HIS WOULD, LIKE THE TRUSTEES' LAWYERS HAVE TOLD THE TRUSTEES, DIRECT STEVE TO REFRAIN FROM RESPONDING TO THIS INQUIRY WHILE LITIGATION IS PENDING. WHEN A BOARD REFUSES TO DO WHAT IS REQUIRED BY LAW, LITIGATION IS THE ONLY REMEDY A CIVILIZED SOCIETY OFFERS. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU ACTUALLY READ THE AMENDED COMPLAINT IN WHICH STEVE SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT IT IS BEING BROUGHT NOT ONLY ON BEHALF OF HIMSELF BUT ALSO ON BEHALF OF OTHERS SIMILARLY SITUATED, MEANING CLUB MEMBERS, ALL OF WHOM ARE ENTITLED TO THE INFORMATION DENIED TO STEVE AND TO OTHER MEMBERS.


Specifically, exactly what motivated him to do so?

I REPEAT: EVERY LAWYER I KNOW, INCLUDING PRESUMABLY HIS WOULD, LIKE THE TRUSTEES' LAWYERS HAVE TOLD THE TRUSTEES, DIRECT STEVE TO REFRAIN FROM RESPONDING TO THIS INQUIRY WHILE LITIGATION IS PENDING. DOING THE RIGHT THING IS IMPORTANT TO MANY PEOPLE, PROBABLY TO STEVE TOO.


SH is no longer a member? CORRECT

What happened to his membership? THE TRUSTEES THREW HIM OUT WHEN HE REFUSED TO DROP HIS REQUEST FOR DOCUMENTS TO WHICH HE AND ALL MEMBERS ARE LEGALLY ENTITLED (IN MY OPINION).

Is there some sort of commercial element to all this?
TO MY KNOWLEDGE THERE IS NO COMMERCIAL ELEMENT FOR STEVE. I NOTE THAT BOARD MEMBERS SKIRMANTS, LIBERTY, CAMPBELL, GARRETSON DERIVE INCOME FROM 356 RELATED BUSINESSES BUT I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE AS TO THOSE TRUSTEES' COMMERCIAL "ELEMENTS."

What benefit does SH specifically stand to gain from the legal action?
STEVE AND THE SIMILARLY SITUATED MEMBERS (THAT WOULD BE ALL OF THEM) WOULD GAIN A CLUB RUN ACCORDING TO OHIO LAW AND APPROPRIATE CLUB GOVERNANCE AND ACCOUNTING

It is hard to believe that SH is working to protect and preserve a club he holds no membership in.
YOUR BELIEFS ARE UP TO YOU. I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE EVER HEARD OF ANY PERSON CHANGING ANOTHER PERSON'S BELIEF.

Some simple, concise explanation would be very much welcomed, specifically from SH in his own words.

WHY DO YOU ASK?


I'm going to add an apology here. Using all caps is interpreted as shouting by many if not most internet users and that is what I used and I am sorry I did so. However, I did not mean to shout. I have considerable difficulty getting quotes to work on the software used here but will eventually learn I am sure. I used the caps simply to distinguish easily from the originals. As you can see by this edit I have at least figured out, at least a little, the colors here. As for my shouting, please recall that one should "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" - in this instance mine own.

[356JAGER]

DELETED

[Bill Sampson]

Quote from Mic:

"I guess my original question should of been why do the holidays have to cost so much. Why all the extras. Nothing wrong with what they are doing or how they are run, just not my cup of tea. To answer my own question here.--The crowd that supports them enjoys this type of event.-- In my opinion the holidays as currently run are more about meeting with like minded people who enjoy doing expensive things instead of just hanging out at a beer & bbq & shooting the bull about all things cars."

HEY MIC. I don't know where you are, but, join a woodie club. You don't even have to own a car. The shows (in reality, weekend long parties) are all free. No shirt, No shoes, No reservation, NO PROBLEM. And, of course, the Porsche 356 Club, a club not affiliated with the Registry, has more 356 events than any club in the world and they might be more along the lines of what you're seeking.

[bbspdstr]

Dan asks: "Why did Steve H take this action, reportedly on his own, against the Registry? Specifically, exactly what motivated him to do so?
SH is no longer a member? What happened to his membership?
Is there some sort of commercial element to all this? What benefit does SH specifically stand to gain from the legal action?
It is hard to believe that SH is working to protect and preserve a club he holds no membership in."

OK, I privately asked Dan why he is concerned, what he got from the Registry, how long he's been a member, etc. but no answer. Sort of like the one-and-done challenge when this was where it really belongs, on the Registry Forum.

So, FWIW, I'll offer what I know from what I've read here, there (the Samba) and the Registry.

The genesis: Steve was asking (not noticably "accusing") on the Registry Forum rather pointedly about some unclear financial issues and was rebuffed. He was squelched and censored on the club site and finally had his membership terminated. I'd guess that if more gentlemanly efforts had been in place, Steve would still be a member. None of us are privileged to know exactly what transpired in what order or what was said behind the scenes between the 8 trustees, the then-moderators and Mr. Henrichs, but that's the thumbnail.

As for the books Mr. Henrichs authors in conjunction with Porsche and others, I personally doubt his profit, if any... after all the associated costs and limited numbers sold.... would come close to what his legal costs will be....and he does not have the alleged D&O insurance safety blanket that the trustees are said to have. I get the sense that he does NOT do any of either with concern for the money involved.

The books and the "last resort" legal aspect are personal decisions made by Mr. Henrichs....I'm guessing because he loves Porsches and thus the detailed documentation of them...and on the other, the Registry Club leadership must have really pissed him off.

In reading his postings, I sense that Mr. Henrichs, a CPA and corporate businessman, is a man with an idea of what's right and wrong and doesn't feel the club (the trustees) are doing what's right for the club (in more than just one way). He seems to have a financial depth that would cause pause in me if I were a trustee about to cross him, especially if the assumed D&O policy has a ceiling.

I would also not trifle with someone who is asked to turn off the light and lock the door behind him when he is through in the official Porsche archives at the end of a day doing his research. Then again, I'm not a trustee.

Dan, kind of crazy, huh? This viewpoint make any sense to you?

[Dan997tt]

Thank you for the summary and perspective. Some of the questions I posed I knew the answers to. Some, I did not.

Much of the original 'history' is lost, as has been noted. As such, it is helpful to those that follow these two threads to provide the summary. Otherwise, these threads, along with the closed Samba thread could be perceived as a few individuals moving from forum to forum to discuss the same issues over and over again. And, as we know, the Registry threads are lost. This is exactly why I asked the questions.

One and done? Actually, no. I am engaged with my business and have limited time. I certainly can't respond to every post in real time. And I figured to give others time to read and respond. Finally, I didn't see a PM or email. Perhaps it was caught in my SPAM folder.

I am a member of 356 Club, 356Registry, Early 911S Registry and PCA (19 years). I have 5 P-cars and have been in the parts business since 1976. I am the president of a $200 million automotive aftermarket company that I co-founded 13 years ago.

Also note that I attended the Registry meeting in Newport Beach and spent some time looking at the books that were available for review that day. I did this to better understand the situation and then form my own opinions that later guided my support for change in the club. I also offered to volunteer to support certain initiatives that were discussed that day. No follow up from Registry took place.

Hope this helps clarify.

[Bill Sampson]

Thanks Dan.