Polo motor build for junkyard coupe 58367

[roy mawbey]

Justin and Jacques

Thanks so much for that detailed information, it makes it clear to me now the current situation. Yes as soon as Jacques mentioned the 911 fans etc I remembered the info on the new early 356 carrera shrouds and that is why I was confused.

Yes, now I can see just how each step can take time and so much effort to get correct.

Its so interesting to follow and will be much easier now for me.

Roy

[JTR70]

Thanks Roy, makes two of us as I get confused regularly.

4/10/16
More left closing section.

A little time invested here to carefully make that sweeping bend to match up with the rest of the housing as close as possible.

Basic outlined shape steadily coming into focus.

Trimmed a bit of the excess off and set to figuring out how best to shape and terminate this lower corner. When you begin with a piece of metal its no big deal but as the time accrues it gets a bit more dicey to proceed for fear of ruining the part somehow and blowing all that time invested.

Took a little torch heat and rolled the edges in to help me close in on a final profile shape that I can be happy with.

A lot yet to do but I think its heading in the right direction.

Put a flange in a small square section to begin the side panel.


Continuing on with that next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[neilbardsley]

I continue to marvel at the lengths you are willing to go to get this right. You never take the easy route. How, do you have time!

[JTR70]

I appreciate that Neil and thank you! I'm just sure to put a little time aside (almost everyday) until I reach the destination I'm after. Nothing more to it than that really. Thanks again! Justin

4/13/16


More time and a little more torch heat to roll this edge and terminate this corner into a soft flowing shape I can live with.

Once tacked up I had gone about as far as I could until the lateral section is established so it was back to work on that.

With both pieces mounted into position These two tin screws were added to hold that final fit so it could be removed for trimming.

Final cut lines could now be etched in accurately.

Trimmed, remounted and ready for a few tack welds.


She's getting there...

Continues the line of the housing down the cam tower just fine.

Next challenge will be to carefully trim and manipulate the excess into a nice rolled finished corner.

Vertical scribe line marks the step flange that has to be added next to match the housing for a tight flush fit here.

I don't have step flange roller tool so I had to improvise a little by clamping it to my trusty heavy table.

A metal ruler worked as my spacer/hammer form. Poor people got poor ways.

Close enough for government work...

Once that was added it sat nice and tight against the housing. Most of the lower section will be gone once the relief is cut in for the intake manifold runner but up top here should survive.
Finishing up that lower corner next.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[roy mawbey]

Well done Justin, that's coming along really well.A nice flowing shape indeed.

Roy

[DG58INNM]

Justin,
I don't think I've commented yet on the POlo motor thread, but have been following it closely. I've screwed together a bunch of 911 motors over the years, so fun to see this project. Love the adaptation of the Carrera fan/tin. Very cool.
DG

[JTR70]

Thank you Roy! Form has to follow function of course, especially here, but it is taking a shape that I can live with.

I know you have and I really appreciate your input David, Thank you! I wish you and your spot welder where closer. Thanks again you guys!
Justin

4/15/16

First corner now in basic shape.

Took some time to get my head around how I was going to make this corner work.

I wanted to incorporate that threaded hole to help clamp this corner down tight against the eventual internal air flow. I trimmed that tailing off eventually figuring it would be much cleaner and easier to make this filler section from one piece.

Easier to template and fabricate it without the chain box in the way.

After a quick template it became clear I could hammer from it in the rest of the way. So much easier than I expected.

In steel.

After some heat, hammering and trimming it almost fell into place.

ready to tack weld. Edge has trimmed even with the rest of the housing to continue the line.

There is, finally. I'll TIG it the rest of the way in.

Physically it doesn't amount to much but between planning, templates, bending, bolting and unbolting, checking and rechecking I have about 8 hours in this piece so far... and its still far from done. Its finally ever so slowly sinking in about what a huge expense both in time and money this retro fit it is versus just building it with a 911 fan shroud. When I think all that is yet to come with internal baffling, custom intake manifolds and other 3 corners I can easily see where just this fan conversion alone could quickly add another 20-25K on top of Deans basic offering just in parts and Fab-shop time if you're not doing it yourself but paying some fool like me to convert it.

One down(sort of) 3 more to go.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[Carrera_The_Kid]

Great work Justin. You will have fun cutting the holes for the injector stacks and maintaining an even 1mm gap. Went through this on my engine, took lots of time, undoubtedly driven by the fact that metal shaping is not my forte

[jacques]

Hi Justin
have you checked the clearance to the deck lid?
j

[DG58INNM]

Justin,
Have you checked to make sure there is clearance for the cam oil feed line running between the bottom of your tin and the top of the chain housing? Remember that line has to get across there and around to the fitting on the cam tower.

Looking more at your late model chain boxes, I can see they are different than the early boxes I am used to. Looks like maybe the oil feed line goes into a fitting on the top chain box, and that in turn feeds the cam towers? But I still see a hole on the case where the oil feed line would originate, so I figure it must still get used with these late style chain boxes and clearance looks like it could be a problem. Or maybe the oil feed is completely within the chain boxes? But still it looks like there is an oil passage on the case that is open, so does something have to fit there?
DG

[jacques]

DG it's a 964/993 based no oil lines

[356hunter]

Justin, I was wondering if fabrication might be easier if you made templates from plastic sheeting or foam. I recall reading an article several years ago about some nascar team that would first build a template from a sheet of plastic that was thin enough to cut, bend and form into a template before attempting real thing in metal. Just a thought?

Michael Foster

[JTR70]

Thanks Joris! Yes, fitting and minimizing leakage around the intakes will be yet another issue to address.

Hi Jacques, Yes, it was mocked up in the car back on page 19 of this thread. It should clear but if it does not I just won't run the original lid and will have another one made to fit.

Another clearance concern is the 587 version cross bar which Bill Sargent pointed out earlier.

While I was in the middle of that first corner section a lot of other ideas are rolling around in my head as it goes. The eventual fan pulley will have to be extended out to align with the bottom pulley. My plan is to have Bill turn me a custom extension shaft/hub assembly which will resemble the spacing in the above mock up.

I'm thinking I might take advantage of that gap and drop my cross bar down in there a bit for extra clearance if necessary.

May or may not do it as its way too early but its an option I'm exploring. I'm also looking into a nice wide serpentine belt system for sort of a super charger vibe.


Hey David, the 964 chain boxes have that line incorporated into the casting. You can see the opening of this galley just peaking out. Dean preps his cases to run the earlier stuff as its more readily available. I'm retro fitting my case to run these later components. Its going to be Bill to the recue again to mill me out a section to mate up with that passage which will be TIG welded into position.

The tapped hole for the earlier line will be plugged and then tapped from the side then into that new added section that will be welded on. Like the 4-cam housing I've created a lot more extra work for myself but its the direction I wanted to head in with this build.

Hi Michael, It would be the same difference; paper or plastic templates. I could have a one to one perfect representation in foam however once you make the leap into the metal its the same process and effort to hand from it from flat stock. The economy route would be to just make them in fiberglass or a rougher more rudimentary shape in metal I suppose but I'd never be satisfied with either. As Neil mentioned earlier I never take the easy way out.
Thanks again you guys!
Justin

[JTR70]

4/21/16

Begin template development on the forward section.

Only have a very general idea of what I'm after so needless to say this piece is going to evolve and change dramatically before its all over.

Beginning with just a basic rudimentary enclosure as a jumping off point.

Once I was that far I began playing around with triangulated/tapered shoulder transitions.

More planning and rethinking of general shapes and what it eventually needs to do.

As the session wound down I was kind of liking this sway-back profile but again all too preliminary.

Went about as far as I could with this try. Learned a little and am ready to begin the second template rendition which will be a little cleaner and made from fewer pieces. Gotta make them ugly and nasty first, no way around it at least not for me.
Thanks for looking!
Justin

[Bill Sargent]

Justin,

The shroud development is looking good. I have to express an opinion though on the generator pulley and throttle linkage arrangement. You have spend an enormous amount of time getting the body perfect and acquiring all the factory racing parts to make your car period correct. I see the 4 cam shroud on the Polo motor as an extension of what the factory could have done. So for me a toothed belt and the 587 style throttle linkage on your motor kind of spoils things. Go for a proper 4 cam generator pulley (Jacques can help you) and make a custom spun aluminum cone shaped cover for the generator shaft extension. The get Jack Walther to send you some photos of the early style throttle linkage that sits on the crank pulley end of the motor just above the case - has a small bell crank and the rods go up to the carb levers, not down like on a 587 with the cross bar. In my opinion if you go this way it looks period "way cool"