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Polo motor build for junkyard coupe 58367

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  • 3/7/16

    relief cutting the fan housing floor.
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    It was very hard to begin cutting into such a beautifully (not to mention expensive) fabricated work of art but for my application there was simply no choice.
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    I began with the forward half as it needed less cutting and modification to seat down low enough into position.
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    After the removal of a small section for that bolt boss and a bit of heating and crowning this half slipped into place.
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    It was instant gratification and took some of the regret I initially felt once I started cutting into it.
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    Now it was onto relieving the rear half and as you can see it has a good ways to go.
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    Before I removed the fitted parts of the housing I had to mock it up a little ways just to get a glimpse of what is going to one day be. Some exhaust sections laid down for effect.
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    This engine has such a long way to go but day dreaming like this does help with motivation.
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    Also began playing around with potential templates shapes for the lower closing tin yet to be fabricated. They are going to be much smaller than I originally anticipated.
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    It was lot of fun to dream but it was now time to get back to work. Paper templating the basic relief cut shape I need to make in the back half.
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    That shape now transferred to the pan and ready to begin cutting it out. You can see the initial cutting and heating I had to do on the forward half. BTW: I will be most likely be fabricating most of the new floor section from scratch for a smooth transition. I'm removing only the bare minimum here for correct basic fitment so I can later plan out what the final shape of this floor needs to be.
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    It took some doing but I eventually got enough of trimmed away allowing the back half to slip down.
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    Generator stand synched down tight with both halves of the housing fully fastened together.
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    Again this is my most misaligned side and as Jack mentioned earlier gives the impression that the housing is still sitting too far back as compared with a 4-cam. What I've recently noticed is that this bank seems to sit a bit farther forward than a 4-cam which would also help with the illusion that the fan farther out than it really is. Maybe a bit of both? Either way its as far forward as I can machine for clearance without compromising the integrity of the top of the block.
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    There it be! The final bolted position of this new housing.
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    I was soon back to planning the lower closing tin.
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    The template above was sort of a hybrid of a 911 in that area. This is where I was at when Jack woke me up and asked "Is all this going to fit under your deck lid"? What a great question.
    Initial answer coming up next.
    Thanks for stopping by!
    Justin
    Justin Rio

    Comment


    • I know you mentioned this before but every time I see your fan shroud I wonder how the front cylinders are going to get any air flow?

      Comment


      • I would imagine, air veins like any other...

        Comment


        • Click image for larger version

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          Hi Neil, if I ran it naked like this then that most forward bank would certainly starve for flow. You have to imagine the enclosed box or shroud that will one day encapsulate this area. Once pressurized by the fan the air will have no real exit other than to pass downward over those fins and as Manolin said it will have a directional vein to help guide more flow back that way. Even a standard push-rod doghouse has a cylinder that's not quite in the line of fire of the fan but the shrouding ensures it get its needed amount of flow, No different here.

          3/8/16
          Engine in car mock up for deck lid clearance.
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          carefully fed the block up into the car to begin the test. Gambling with my new paint job already.
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          I wanted to record the extreme maxed out position first and work back from there. The lid was latched down and the block was jacked up and pushed back until the fan housing was snuggly into the rain tray.
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          These first three shots show the engine in this extreme position.

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          My rear dolly mount/support is conveniently a stock hoop which gave me all the locator sight markings I needed to estimate stock motor placement.
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          Taking another hoop with a trans-mount and bell housing gave me approximate offset and height from the hoops lower mount holes which became my baseline for the one in the car.
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          Using those sight marking measurements I was able to approximate where this motor is going to sit based on the bell housing contact surface and lower mount holes in relation to the holes in the hoop. Hope that made sense.
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          Hard to distinguish from earlier but here is the motor now in approximate position.
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          From the initial maxed out position the motor was moved inward just over a half inch and lowered a full inch.
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          Hard to get a clean shot with the lid closed but you get an idea of the clearance I have with the tray. I can easily slip my hand between the two. Again only an approximation but ample room for engine movement and this is not taking into account the extra clearance I'll get with the weight of the motor squishing those trans mounts down a touch more.
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          So my best guess for now is that yes, it should clear the lid. However if it doesn't in the end this cover will simply go into storage and a nice GT lid from Trevor's will be made to fit.
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          A lot of measuring and double check but I it was a lot of fun to see that new housing sitting in there!
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          Its been close to 50 years since this engine compartment looked like this.
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          Exciting and fun while it lasted but time to break it down and get back to work on the engine tin.
          Thanks for looking!
          Justin
          Justin Rio

          Comment


          • Justin - I think you have no concern on the fan shroud hitting the engine lid, but from looking at your photos you will definitely not be able to run the throttle cross bar with the stock engine lid. Given the age of your car the original motor would not have run the throttle cross bar. It would instead of had the throttle linkage down near the case in either the front or the rear of the motor - depends on the year. I believe early cars had the linkage on the front (flywheel end) of the shroud and later cars had it on the rear (crank pulley end). Others more knowledgeable on Carreras can provide a definitive answer.

            Go look at Jack Walther's photos of the Kustom Karrera restoration - he had to source these parts. There is a link to his photo collection from one of his Registry posts. I believe Nigel Cousins in the UK may have also reproduced some of the parts. Rainer Cooney may also be a source. And there is always Peter Hoffman or Freisinger in Germany - both both are high $$$$$$.

            Looking great!

            Comment


            • Justin,
              Looking great! I can help you with your fluid dynamics challenge. You will need some modifications to guide and allocate the required air to cool the left bank heads. Due to the tangential way that air exits the fan vanes, radial fans typically have higher air velocities and lower CFM than axial fans. Vanes and a properly shaped/sized plenum are required for your application. Let's talk.
              "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
              Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • Justin,

                You have probably seen this youtube before of a 59 356A fitted with a polo engine. The guy who did it advises over 200hp and it looks great. Of course its only a short clip but he must have overcome all cooling problems it would seem.

                I post the link if not for you but for those who have not seen it.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTtOpKQWUjo

                Roy

                Comment


                • I believe that was a shortened 911 engine with 2 cylinders removed and the crankcase modified.

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                  • Does anyone know where to buy the mesh velocity stack filters like those shown in this video?
                    Mark Erbesfield
                    57 356A
                    65 911
                    68 912
                    73 911S
                    66 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ45LV
                    79 450SL Dad's old car

                    Comment


                    • probably 48IDAs

                      Comment


                      • Briefly mentioned, they are 40's.
                        Moderation in all things - resistance is futile

                        Comment


                        • Bruce does not know what he is talking about

                          Comment


                          • Thanks Bill!! yeah, I just don't know at this point. A cross-bar may be made to fit this application but its just too far down the line right now. I'll have a better idea once the intake manifolds are built and I've settled on 48IDA's or EFI. I'm not at all hung up on correct 547 linkage for this year of car as its just a stand in hot rod motor. It just has to work and clear the lid. Thanks again!

                            Tony nice speaking with you this evening. Hope this weekend will work for you as I sure could use your expertise on this. Thank you!

                            Hey Roy,

                            Your video link worked right the first time..at least on my end. Thank you for that 1,000th post BTW and for being such an active part of this site, I greatly appreciate all you done here!

                            Don, if go back and listen to his description again he mentions "new Block and Crank". Its a Polo casting he just failed to give Dean any credit during this interview.

                            Mark, take a look here:
                            http://www.abcgt.com/forum/6-Hot-Rod--Modified-356/19645-Screens-for-Parabolic-Intake-Trumpets.html

                            I'd bet they were 48's too Jacque.
                            Justin Rio

                            Comment


                            • Justin,
                              Good talking with you. I talked with Dean for a while. Call me when you get a chance. BTW, see the picture--is this the Sebring exhaust version you mentioned?

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                              "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
                              Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • Hi Justin, I too have a Polo motor and would like the contact information of your machinist.

                                Michael Foster
                                mfoster356@yahoo.com
                                714-235-6814

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