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Chassis 85517 Number 17 356 Convertible D

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  • Chassis 85517 Number 17 356 Convertible D

    Rebooting this build thread


    While in the middle of steel repairs on my buddies '59 S/R coupe:



    https://www.abcgt.com/new-forum/foru...chassis-108625
    his very early Convertible D had the last of its steel repairs completed and was now ready for its final paint and bodywork phase. He had asked me if I knew anyone who could help him with it and I told him I'd be willing to take it on.











    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0744re.JPG Views:	1 Size:	758.0 KB ID:	105111
    Arrival from Texas last August.Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0746re.JPG Views:	2 Size:	496.2 KB ID:	105112
    Safely in my shop. Since I didn't build this car I took a couple of days to study it and get to know it before I decided what the next move was.


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    It was a bit of a novelty to begin a project not being confronted with missing floors and rusted out sections.





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    Just a very basic roughed in body.
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    After some time getting to know it a lot things began jumping out at me and it quickly became apparent that this body was a lot farther from "ready for paint" than I first realized.
    Last edited by JTR70; 06-20-2019, 05:49 PM.
    Justin Rio

  • #2
    Kardex info for this car:





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    Car will be Kardex correct in Meissen Blue, Cognac, and G2 tan carpet. Have to admit I wasn't sure about this combo when I first saw it but its growing on me. Something different for sure. BTW: I have three samples of Meissen blue and a small square of this cars original finish that was found under the data plate. I'll begin a separate discussion on Meissen blue in the general forum here shortly.
    Here is what the car looked like when Purchased from the long time owners.


    Click image for larger version  Name:	85517-2.jpg Views:	1 Size:	52.6 KB ID:	105119
    Funky looking little thing with its punched in nose and B/C hood handle mounted way up high. Car looks very "moist" in this shot so you could bank on some serious rust repairs.
    I had spoke with John Chatley (the Convertible D authority and Register ) right after it arrived here and he relayed some interesting details about the "D" production and this car in particular. Here was his note:



    Justin,
    Yes, D #85517 !!
    Is it with you for paint only or what?
    The new owner might have mentioned that I found this early D for him and spoke with the family countless times
    to help them realize that they really couldn't do this D justice due to their lack of experience with
    356s.
    I'm very interested in seeing how it turned out. Because it is such an early D, there were some Speedster characteristics to it.
    How many? I don't know.
    Throughout the Conv. D production of only one year, many changes were made. Some to improve the car, others
    to possibly test out for the upcoming 356B Roadster, I believe.
    Nice to hear from you again,
    John


    Seems the long time owner had passed away and his son who grew up around the car had every intention of restoring it or at least getting it up and running. He began his own page on it which gave some historical details and his intentions for the car. He apparently soon came to the realization that he was getting in over his head and with John Chatley's input decided it best to let it go. Here's the link to his page:

    https://myconvertibled.wordpress.com/

    I'll have to get in touch with John and have him forward this post to the late owners son so he'll know what has become of his father's beloved old 356.



    Click image for larger version  Name:	85517-3.jpg Views:	1 Size:	60.8 KB ID:	105120
    Above is a shot of both cars that here with me. Probably headed out for media blast? More later and thanks for looking!
    Justin
    Last edited by JTR70; 05-25-2019, 07:25 PM.
    Justin Rio

    Comment


    • #3
      Update: I did hear back from John Chatley concerning letting the old owners son know about the current state of his fathers old car. I misunderstood, John was in contact with the original owners widow as her son who was intent on rebuilding this car had already himself since passed away from a battle with cancer. So this car was a bit of an orphaned project at the time of purchase making it one of the more sadder stories I've heard.


      A few shots before it went for metal work.

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      Lots of crash damage with a front end clip repair and the usual amount of rust decay, especially open car decay. A fantastic restoration candidate by today's standards.'



      Click image for larger version  Name:	85517-4.jpg Views:	1 Size:	122.4 KB ID:	105123
      Surprised to see this car not originally fitted with USA bumpers. I was under the impression that all Convertible D's had them.
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      Seen rustier cars... Hints of the old Meissen Blue on the door.
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      Suffered a major front end hit at some point...
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      Off to metal work next.
      Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 12:51 AM.
      Justin Rio

      Comment


      • #4
        Some shots of the metal work phase while at the shop that performed the work.
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        About as extensive as it gets on the front end.
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        Trevor Marshall front fenders for sure. Looks to be a coupe hinge(left) and the correct speedster hinge on the right.
        Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 01:06 AM.
        Justin Rio

        Comment


        • #5

          Ready to begin body work but some corrective detail metal work derailed that plan.

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          I knew it was probably going to need some minor metal work as it went as I had no illusions of it being even close to top coat ready. I just didn't how much additional work it would need until I began removing components.

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          With the headlights out the first thing that jumped out was the bucket positioning. You want to be sure you have seal clearance but this was way too much.
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          By contrast an unmolested original shows the lip much closer to the fender.
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          Just at 3mm to be exact.
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          By contrast these where sitting at about 7mm!! The headlamps mounted alight it would just looked bad if and when the units where removed. Might have just left them as is but other issues where soon found so it was leaning more and more toward resetting these.
          Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 01:29 AM.
          Justin Rio

          Comment


          • #6
            Bucket issues part 2Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0775re.JPG Views:	1 Size:	111.7 KB ID:	105145
            Right side bucket was also excessively shouldered.


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            Another detail problem were these crudely hammered over edges of the wire conduits.

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            Instead of this factory beveled edge, the conduits in this car where hastily hammered over into a sad mushroom shape. None of this of course is the end of the world as its all peripheral details but the devil is in the details as they say so I immediately relayed these pics to the owner and asked him if he wanted them corrected or just let it ride? I couldn't leave it like this if it where my car but then again once the headlight is on who's gonna know? He got right back to me and we both agreed it would be a little cheesy to leave it as is. Its a valuable car and worth the effort and he wants to be proud of it with the headlights in or removed when its done. Unfortunately this wouldn't be the last I'd find as the work continued. That next, thanks for looking!
            Justin



            Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 03:28 AM.
            Justin Rio

            Comment


            • #7
              Other bucket and fender brace issuesClick image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0783re.JPG Views:	1 Size:	666.4 KB ID:	105149
              At first glance brace area looks all well and good but as I poked around prepping for the bucket adjustment several issues cropped up.


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              A missing detail on the bottom of the bucket itself was a steel drain tube. A rubber 901 drain had been installed in its stead. Again not the end of the world but we want the details to be correct.


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              An issue with the mount tab on the fender side. Originally this tab would be spot welded (now plug welded) over the face of the contact flange. Instead its only been quickly seam weld at the leading edge of it. You can also see where it was mounted previously then cut ahead of the weld and repositioned.


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              Too much leverage with it only secured at the bottom. You can see here how the rest of it is peeling away from the wall. It will be reattached more thoroughly and I'll clean up the remains of the first attempt that was left behind.

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              The inner attachment point needed a small redo as well. The folded vertical walls of the brace is correct but it should shoulder up tight against the bumper bracket housing.
              Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 03:47 AM.
              Justin Rio

              Comment


              • #8
                More Brace issuesClick image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0798re.JPG Views:	1 Size:	791.4 KB ID:	105155
                At this point I still wasn't sure the attachment details where enough to justify cutting all this back loose. Then a tipping point was with how the entire brace itself was sitting in there. The whole unit seemed to be tilted forward.


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                Sure enough, once I mocked up a horn it was pointing downward.

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                Square edge shows just how much of an angle in relation to the bumper bracket housing. After an confirmation email or two it was decided that it was ALL coming back out.
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                Lost without an original reference car...







                Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 04:00 AM.
                Justin Rio

                Comment


                • #9
                  Before I start disturbing things I wanted to get a baseline of where this front end was set.


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                  Laid a straight edge across the buckets to check for levelness in relation to one another.


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                  The left side showed the outer edge slightly higher than the inner side of the bucket.


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                  By contrast the inner edge was set quite bit higher than the outer. Complete levelness would be ideal but the nose and headlight openings are going to dictate how the buckets are set. By the looks of things the headlights are going to end up on the "wall-eyed" side of things and according to Bruce Baker that will be acceptable. The cars just can never be "cross-eyed" and look right. Thanks again for the tips Bruce!


                  Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0772re.JPG Views:	1 Size:	508.4 KB ID:	105163
                  Before I cut the fender braces free I also wanted to note the distance from the lip of the fender opening to the battery box wall. This side was coming in at 17 inches. The unmolested side of my reference car was 16.5 inches.

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                  The right side by contrast was coming in at 16 inches even. So a whole inch of discrepancy between the two sides. I'll see if I can get them more symmetrical while preserving a good body line before its over. The die has sort of already been set so there is only so much I can do.
                  Thanks for stopping by!
                  Justin




                  Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 04:17 AM.
                  Justin Rio

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Begin bucket and brace removal on the left side.

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                    Tang first..



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                    clean the remains up later.Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0814re.JPG Views:	1 Size:	658.2 KB ID:	105168
                    Next to go was the lower portion of the brace. I left conduit for easier removal in stages. When it all goes back to together I want the option of building and positioning it to suit so it would be coming apart anyway.


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                    Speaking of the lower portion of the brace here was a refresher for me that you have to rough up your surfaces to give your coatings something to anchor to; even rocker shootz. This brace was not scuffed and I was zipping it off with ease. Wouldn't last long with rocks and debris being flung at it off the tire.

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                    Before I removed the bucket I went ahead and made the new drain tube and installed it just to be sure I had it oriented right. The tube doesn't get in the way with bucket removal and install so I went ahead.

                    Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 04:31 AM.
                    Justin Rio

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Left bucket removalClick image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0832rea.JPG Views:	1 Size:	185.6 KB ID:	105174
                      Drilling out the plug-welds and prying the flange to get the bucket free. It was a crying shame to disturb all of this finish work but no choice.Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0835re.JPG Views:	1 Size:	105.8 KB ID:	105175
                      Once I had the conduit out and got all the plug welds to release (fortunately there was only a handful holding it in) my slide hammer came in next to get the bucket out.

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                      Finally touched bottom here.


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                      Now onto prepping the pieces to go back in; that next.
                      Thanks for looking!
                      Justin







                      Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 04:46 AM.
                      Justin Rio

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Headlight bucket prep repair and detail.


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                        Like the brace it sat on the rocker shootz peeled right off with no scuffing to hang onto.


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                        Original buckets have these twin dimple details.
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                        So while I'm here I added them in.
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                        Both buckets have these twin half moon knockouts on the outer edge in the 8&5 o'clock positions. Incorrect for a 356 which is why I suspect these may be for 911. Anyway, back filling these and repairing where I had drilled out the previous plug welds to get them out.
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                        Before I could add the piece back on I had to peck that step or shoulder feature back in.









                        Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 06:44 AM.
                        Justin Rio

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bucket prep part 2
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                          In process of back filling all the holes.
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                          All metal repair and details completed. Ready for sealer coat.
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                          epoxy sealer coat.
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                          Quick black top coat
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                          Scuffed so the eventual rocker shootz has something to hang onto. Bucket ready to be remounted in the car.






                          Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 06:57 AM.
                          Justin Rio

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            headlight conduit prep and repairClick image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0806re.JPG Views:	1 Size:	513.0 KB ID:	105191
                            Didn't have any spare tubing of that size so I made my own repair sections from some 16 gauge. This deep socket made for the perfect hammer form.


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                            Heeled over tight and ready to weld.

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                            New section welded and ready.
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                            Ready to flare the new end.
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                            End flared and cutting to final length


                            Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 07:10 AM.
                            Justin Rio

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Conduit prep part 2
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                              Will end up being a much cleaner presentation than that sad little mushroom I found in there.

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                              Prepping the conduit for its new ends. Its now short at both ends so an extension was needed on the inside as well.
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                              New flare ready for a tack weld.
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                              Welded and dressing the shoulder down next. The inside will be filed smooth as well to make sure no weld slag chafes the wire leads that will eventually live in it.
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                              Back to a usable length, dressed and ready to remount as well.




                              Last edited by JTR70; 05-26-2019, 07:24 AM.
                              Justin Rio

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